Sirau and their use

[fearn]

I can't say anything for how people cut food in Indonesia, but I do know that my mother always cuts smaller vegetables with the edge held up and the thumb pushing the veggies onto the edge. I personally think it's a crazy way to work, but unlike me, she's never cut herself using a knife that way. Effectively, it turns her hand into an anvil-style clipper.

If you don't have a clean surface or a cutting board, processing food in hand makes a lot of sense. If someone wants to experiment with cutting veggies with a sirau, I'd suggest cutting celery or something similar, because it doesn't tend to break suddenly, like a carrot, so the edge won't suddenly jerk towards your thumb.

Best,

F

[KuKulzA28]

Originally Posted by David

Well KuKulz, i'm sorry that my questions are driving you you deep sighs...

It's only that you state a suspicion that it is not a fighting knife at all and provide no evidence or possible evidence for that. But then go on to imply I have no the capacity to imagine a utility role for it. Make a statement, back it up - that's all I'm saying. It doesn't make sense to me for you to take a stance, and then ask the opposing persepctive to come up with support for your arguement.

Originally Posted by David

When you speak of your knife in hand, which one are you referring to, the one in post #31 or #26.

for the past few posts, #31, my bad about the confusion.

[KuKulzA28]

Originally Posted by David

I actually brought up the difference in the two "types" of siraui to question if these are not in fact two completely different knives with different names. The name game can get quite ridiculous at times, but one thing we know for sure is that established writers have not always gotten them exactly right at times.

From the people I have talked to it seems they are called the same thing. But it is true that writers have not always gotten it right and locals call it what they will, and such things can change with time too.

For this topic of the 2 forms, I think Sajen says it best:

Originally Posted by Sajen

I think that David is correct when I handle my two pieces. Like I have written before I tend to say that my pieces are utility knifes.
But when I look to the second piece from Michael in post # 15 and the two from Charles in #19 it could be good possible that these ones was used as weapons.

I agree.

Is anyone here in touch with weapon experts on Sumatra that could tell us if there is a naming difference? Or perhaps they are called the same thing but used differently?

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In my experience, knives from the entire Indonesian area that are used as weapons have blade geometry that presents a grind on either side of the blade, knives that have a chisel grind, as this knife presently under discussion does, are work knives. .

The one I have in #31 doesn't have a chisel grind. It has an edge on both sides. Do the 90 degree choil, non-fullered variety have a chisel grind?

[KuKulzA28]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

However, there are knives in Jawa and Bali that are extremely similar to this knife form, and those Javanese and Balinese knives are work knives, mostly used for working rotan, I believe.Some years ago I knew a tukang wrongko who favoured this style of knife for detail work in the carving of wrongkos.In Bali they are used in the preparation of offerings.

Originally Posted by fearn

I can't say anything for how people cut food in Indonesia, but I do know that my mother always cuts smaller vegetables with the edge held up and the thumb pushing the veggies onto the edge. I personally think it's a crazy way to work, but unlike me, she's never cut herself using a knife that way. Effectively, it turns her hand into an anvil-style clipper.

If you don't have a clean surface or a cutting board, processing food in hand makes a lot of sense. If someone wants to experiment with cutting veggies with a sirau, I'd suggest cutting celery or something similar, because it doesn't tend to break suddenly, like a carrot, so the edge won't suddenly jerk towards your thumb.

OK, now this makes sense. These do sound like non-combat purposes/ways to use this knife. That's it, I'm going to save up and get one made in Indonesia and test it out myself!

[harimauhk]

Now I see why Vinny had so many questions about the siraui! I have a Minangkabau one that is absolutely meant to be a weapon. The handle and sheath are beautifully carved and the blade is chased. Being a practitioner of Minang silat, it could absolutely be used as a weapon in either grip. I can see many ways it would integrate seamlessly in that manner.

I'd rather not get into specifics about use, but based on its size, I believe this kind of blade would possibly have been intended for srikandi (female warriors), a la Minang kerambit. The men would have preferred the sewar, tumbuk lada or keris. I can see how the larger ones could have been battlefield weapons, however. I have a very large modern Javanese one that again is absolutely intended for combat.

It could be used as a slasher or a stabber. It could also very well be used for utility. Cutting plants at their base with one with the edge up in forward/hammer grip would be much more natural than with the edge down.

North of Minangkabau, the Acehnese have long had their rencong, which is definitely all combat, so using an edge up or edge in fighting knife is not really unusual for the region.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by harimauhk

Now I see why Vinny had so many questions about the siraui! I have a Minangkabau one that is absolutely meant to be a weapon. The handle and sheath are beautifully carved and the blade is chased. Being a practitioner of Minang silat, it could absolutely be used as a weapon in either grip. I can see many ways it would integrate seamlessly in that manner.

Can wee see a picture from this one?

Regards,

Detlef

[harimauhk]

Unfortunately I have it in storage: it is a modern piece, but nicely done. I'll see if I can rescue it tomorrow.