NORTHERN EUROPEAN HELMET ZISCHAGGE from the 17 TH Century URGENT NEED HELP !

[Matchlock]

Hi Cerjak,

Sorry to see that nobody has responded so far.

My expertise in parts of armor is very limited, and my expert friend whom I linked with your query has not yet replied.
Telling from the surface condition and the visible criteria of manufacture, like the patina, washers etc., I would not doubt that this is an original Zischagge from the second half of the 17th c., probably of Polish origin.
Sadly I cannot answer your detailed questions with sufficient authority but I noticed a similar piece ending on ebay a couple of days ago, which my friend thought was a fake; I differed from his opinion and it fetched 1,100 euro.

Hoping this will be of at least some help,
best,
Michael

[Matchlock]

One more.

[Matchlock]

Hi Cerjak,

Finally my friend contacted me. He, too, thinks that the Zischagge is completely genuine but might be a bit younger (later) than I thought it was, probably from the period of Prince Eugen, ca. 1700, and most probably from the Balkan region.

Best,
Michael

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi Cerjak,

Finally my friend contacted me. He, too, thinks that the Zischagge is completely genuine but might be a bit younger (later) than I thought it was, probably from the period of Prince Eugen, ca. 1700, and most probably from the Balkan region.

Best,
Michael

Michael
Many thanks for those information’s.
I could see some differences on the fabrication between those 2 helmets. This one from your post don't have nasal protection and the Ear plates seems to not fit with the helmet. The laminated tail over the back of the neck is build with 3 plates of metal only.
and fabrication process is hidden by the black paint ,it seems that a double layer of metal was used to made the bowl but we can't see from the inside the rivets.
I would like to say more but with my Basic English it is difficult to translate my full opinion.
I will have a look too in this fantastic book from George Cameron Stone "A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in All Countries and in All Times "
On it there is so many photos (only small size and black& white) but it is a so exhaustive book for the period!

Kind regards
CERJAK

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Michael,
Any ideas on this one of mine, I long thought it was a Victorian creation but one never knows.
My Regards,
Norman.

P.S. Cerjak, please excuse my hi-jacking of your thread but as it is in the same vein I hoped you wouldn't mind.

[Matchlock]

Hi Norman,

As far as I can tell from your images, the one you posted is definitely a Victorian (Historismus, 19th century) copy. It shows no traces of hammering, and the rivets do not have the raw but useful washers, let alone does the surface have the rich rust patina above an old layer of black arsenal lacquer.

And: sometimes one does know ... and can tell.

Best,
Michael

[SERGIU]

Cerjak, the lobster tail helmet expert was right, it really is an austrian helmet from around 1700, prince Eugene s army fought major battles in the Banat region taking Timisoara from the turks in 1716, and in our museum helmets identical to yours are clasified as austrian, army of Eugene of Savoy .

[Matchlock]

Thank you, Sergiu,

Your confirmation has been passed to 'my' expert!

Best,
Michael

[Cerjak]

Originally Posted by SERGIU

Cerjak, the lobster tail helmet expert was right, it really is an austrian helmet from around 1700, prince Eugene s army fought major battles in the Banat region taking Timisoara from the turks in 1716, and in our museum helmets identical to yours are clasified as austrian, army of Eugene of Savoy .

Dear Sergiu

I just add some better pics ,the last one was not so good.
You could see that there is some rest of black paint ,Do you thing that it could be the original colour ?
I will be great if you could post some pictures from similar helmet from your museum.
Kind regards

Cerjak