|
28th January 2012, 06:58 PM
|
#1 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 1,065
|
MATCHLOCK MUSKET FOR ID
I've attached a few photos of one matchlock gun from Asia, there is no one mark on it.
I 'm wondering if this musket is from VIETNAM and if it is a work from the 19 or 20 century Thanks in advance for any info! |
|
|
|
29th January 2012, 04:14 PM
|
#2 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
Quote:
Salaams Cerjac, This looks like a Japanese Teppou.(or Teppo) See http://www.samurai-archives.com which says quote: "A look at the teppo~Manufacturing of this new firearm was simple; the barrel of the rifle was simple to create, simply by wrapping hot iron around a rod and force welding it shut made it, then fitting it into the stock of the gun. The gun’s firing mechanism was made from solid brass. The Japanese teppo was not only easy to construct but also simple to operate. The gunner would simply hold the teppo straight using his shoulder as a brace. After opening the priming pan and pulling the trigger a spring would release the serpentine, which holds a lit fuse. As the burning fuse hit the priming pan full of powder, the matchlock would fire. Excess lengths of fuse could be wrapped around the stock of the gun or the gunner’s forearm. Compared to the Japanese bow, the teppo had a more superior range. The matchlock had an effective killing range of 50 meters and a maximum range of 500 meters, compared to the bow, having a killing range of 30 meters and a maximum range of only 380 meters. Ammunition for the teppo came in a variety of sizes, which was measured in weight instead of diameter. Sizes ranged from as small as 1 monme (8.5mm) to as large as 100 monme (48mm, or nearly 2 inches in diameter). Many large caliber teppo (also known as “wall guns”) had large recoil, that bails of rice were used to support the gunners back. Although the teppo came in a variety of calibers, many daimyo standardized their teppo’s bores; this allowed for quick loading and allowed soldiers to use each other’s ammunition, when ammo became short. Ammunition for the matchlock was made from casting solid lead. The lead that was being used for the ammunition was a major import from Europe. It was a suitable metal because of its malleability and high density".Unquote. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
|
|
|
|
|
29th January 2012, 04:51 PM
|
#3 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Sharp end
Posts: 2,928
|
It certainly looks Asian/far east.
Similar to Japanese types, but I don't think it is Japanese. I'm thinking possibly Malay, but Vietnamese seems very likely. Edit: Doing some digging, that ivory panel and butt-end seem to feature on many matchlocks described as Vietnamese. Last edited by Atlantia; 29th January 2012 at 05:18 PM. |
|
|
|
|
29th January 2012, 05:29 PM
|
#4 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
Quote:
Salaams Atlantia... I agree ! Vietnamese serpentine locks according to http://sevenstarstrading.com/site/20...by-philip-tom/ are as you rightly point out Ivory Butt styled. Ibrahiim al Balooshi. Last edited by Rick; 29th January 2012 at 05:45 PM. Reason: direct commercial link deleted; cut and paste new link |
|
|
|
|
|
29th January 2012, 05:30 PM
|
#5 |
|
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,291
|
|
|
|
|
|
29th January 2012, 05:49 PM
|
#6 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
Quote:
Salaams Rick ~ My "seven stars" reference also points to the similarities ...and slight differences between Vietnamese, Japanese and Malay; (Bold letters are mine) I quote; "This article will focus on a curious type of matchlock seen by the author on his recent sojourn, a form which has until now been little known amongst Western collectors (Fig. 11). The barrels, generally octagonal and always smoothbore, vary greatly in length. Calibers range from .40 to about .50 in. They are mounted by means of narrow metal capucines into simple stocks with short, downward-curving butts, fashioned of very dense native hardwood and often provided with ivory or bone butt- and toeplates. From the shape of the butts, they are clearly intended to be rested against the cheek while firing. The locks are of iron, with minimal embellishment, and feature a forward falling serpentine released by a transverse sear and propelled by a single leaf mainspring (Fig. 12). Vietnamese antiquarians and collectors who were queried on their origin insist that they are typical of the Hue area. This might explain their radically different appearance and mechanical design to the rare Tonkin muskets mentioned above. However, the contention by some that they represent borrowed Japanese technology is questionable for several reasons: 1. Japanese Hinawa-ju, though superficially similar, have butts whose toe areas feature a chamfered contour. These Vietnamese guns have flat butts, which puts them in a class with some Malay guns. 2. Japanese barrels are almost always pin-fastened to the stock fore-ends, whereas the Vietnamese ones are attached with bands or capucines (as are Malay, Javanese, Burmese, and Chinese examples). However, it must be noted that the Vietnamese gunstocks do have a longitudinal saw-cut visible along the underside of the fore-end as is the case with Japanese (and Korean) muskets. 3. The mainspring on the Vietnamese lock is single-leaf, whereas Japanese locks have a V-shaped external’ or coiled internal spring. Also, all Vietnamese locks seen by the author are of iron, whereas brass was almost universally used in Japan. 4. The shape and mounting of the trigger-guard is akin to Malay, not-Japanese, prototypes. 5. The position of the trigger relative to the serpentine and buttplate is more akin to the proportions found on Malay and Javanese guns (closer to the serpentine than the Japanese). The snapping matchlock with forward-falling serpentine and transverse sear activated by a conventional trigger was introduced to various Southeast Asian and Far Eastern cultures in the first half of the 16th cent. by the Portuguese. It is in itself a product of the fusion of Indo-Portuguese technologies. It is interesting to note that these Vietnamese guns-retain the single leaf mainspring of the Lusitanian prototypes, whereas the versions produced later by the Chinese’ Japanese, and Koreans all utilized V-shaped springs". Unquote. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi |
|
|
|
|
|
30th January 2012, 10:18 PM
|
#7 |
|
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 27
|
I saw a photograph of this type of gun being held by a native in an old photograph. I believe the caption said it was Ceylonese. Generally a culture southeast of India's eastern seaboard if not from that nation specifically.
|
|
|
|
|
30th January 2012, 11:23 PM
|
#8 |
|
Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,291
|
Salaams Ibrahiim, I am of no opinion regarding his long gun .
 I was simply providing some fodder for thought .  If Malay, or Sinhalese it is conservatively decorated compared to the other examples . |
|
|
|
|
31st January 2012, 04:16 PM
|
#9 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
Quote:
Salaams Rick ~ I agree. However I couldnt get to the answer as your references didn't quite finish the issue..What we have is a Portuguese system injected/adopted into the far eastern style and modified by different countries therein. Someone out there will be able to stick the tail on the donkey no doubt.  Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
|
|
|
|
|
31st January 2012, 05:35 PM
|
#10 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 1,065
|
matchlock musquet
Hi everybody
I just find many informations about similar gun http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/lofi...hp/t279471.htm So should be from vietnam Regards Cerjak |
|
|
|
|
1st February 2012, 02:15 PM
|
#11 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
Quote:
Salaams Cerjak ~ I thoroughly enjoyed going through the excellent reference and noted that the weapon is probably Dai Viet 18/19 C according to Thuong Luong at your reference. Though this is a broad and varied subject I believe you have solved the issue. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi. |
|
|
|
|
|
25th October 2014, 08:36 AM
|
#12 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 1,065
|
really similar design
there is no doubt about the portugese origine !
|
|
|
|
|
26th October 2014, 08:37 AM
|
#13 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE
Posts: 4,408
|
Quote:
Salaams Cerjak.. Nicely researched ..Bravo !!! Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi |
|
|
|
|
|
26th October 2014, 10:41 AM
|
#14 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,497
|
Rainer Daehnhardt in his book "The Bewitched Gun: the Introduction of the Firearm in the Far East by the Portuguese" explains how the short lived European (Bohemian) version of the snap matchlock was brought to various Southeast Asian countries by way of the Portuguese. It is a very interesting book with text in both English and Portuguese.
|
|
|
|
|
26th October 2014, 11:25 AM
|
#15 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: FRANCE
Posts: 1,065
|
Quote:
It was your comments who put me in the right way remenber « ..What we have is a Portuguese system injected/adopted into the far eastern style and modified by different countries therein. Someone out there will be able to stick the tail on the donkey no doubt” Thank you Cerjak |
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
