Dutch model cannons 1761

cannonmn · 15th January 2012, 05:21 PM

Will do. My photohost is not functioning correctly now but will check periodically and post the photos as soon as that site is working again.

cannonmn · 15th January 2012, 05:50 PM

Found it was operator (me) error! A detailed chart of dimensions and weights follows the ten (10) model photos.

fernando · 15th January 2012, 05:53 PM

Well done

cannonmn · 15th January 2012, 05:59 PM

Model "A"

Model "B"

cannonmn · 15th January 2012, 06:16 PM

The best book in existence on Dutch cannons (perhaps one of the only ones?) is THE VISSER COLLECTION by Rudi Roth. The late Henk Visser was a hugely wealthy arms dealer from the Netherlands who accumulated one of the world's largest private arms collections, including cannons. He preferred Dutch cannons, and one purchase from I think Indonesia, he got a warehouse full of VOC ordnance, I think over 100 pieces, mostly various sizes of swivel guns. The book depicts all of the non-duplicate Dutch cannons and lists the remainder, with detailed tabulations of measurements, etc. Roth has further classified them by type and subtype, much of which it appears he had to reconstruct from archival documents. I think due to his book, Dutch ordnance has gone from being "least understood" of the world's ordnance to now among the best understood. Roth is a talented draftsman and included in the book full-page, fully-dimensioned drawings of each non-duplicate cannon in the Visser collection.
--------------------------------
The Visser Collection: Ordnance: cannon, mortars, swivel-guns, muzzle- and breech-loaders
Volume 2 of The Visser Collection: Arms of the Netherlands in the Collection of H.L. Visser, J. P. Puype
Authors J. P. Puype, R. Roth
Publisher Waanders Publishers, 1996
ISBN 9040098816, 9789040098819

cannonmn · 15th January 2012, 06:44 PM

If I had all the time and money in the world I'd certainly go to the extensive VOC archives with a hired translator who specialized in "Old Dutch" and see what I could find in the section indexed by the finding aids line I:1:4 http://www.tanap.net/content/voc/fin..._inventory.htm

cornelistromp · 16th January 2012, 06:47 PM

Of the person Pieter Seest are not many details preserved. Seest had
registered in the city of Amsterdam and was married. He got work in, the since 1614 existing guns and bell foundry on the corner of de Karthuizerstraat en de Baangracht.
Much later he became director of the foundry. This can be read in a number of official pieces. But what do they tell about the person Pieter Seest?
We read that he is Born in Holstein, northern Germany, in 1716. He came as a foreigner to Amsterdam, one of the richest cities. In itself nothing special. His predecessors in the foundry were almost all foreigners; from 1681 to 1699 Claude Fremy from a Lotharingen family, from 1699 to 1715 Claes Noorden, also from the city Holstein and Jan Albert de Graven of Celle in West Germany from 1699 to 1729.
Between 1730 and 1734 was Nicolaus Muller the founder master, a man with a real German name.

The direct predecessor of Pieter Seest was the famous and prolific caster Cyprianus Crans. About 1750 Pieter entered the service with him. Because there was peacetime a lot of church bells were cast. But the East India
Company (VOC) was a constant customer of mainly light artillery. Orders for
big guns came mainly from Portugal. So there are still big guns of the Crans
Artillery in the Army Museum in Lisbon and on the old ramparts of Tanger.

Pieter must have worked on this piece. When Cyprianus died in 1755 he became the master caster.
The Amsterdam Chamber of the VOC should have had faith in Peter, because
orders continued to come in light artillery. In the collection of the 2006 deceased gun collector H. L. Visser Wassenaar were not less than eighteen small guns (Most halfponders) of Seest, all cast for the VOC.
Seest also has many church bells cast, of which several exist today.
Unfortunately claimed the Germans in World War II many church bells. These were melted for the war industry. Maybe the last product of a Seest
cast was a mortar. This piece is on the walls of the Moroccan city of Essaouira.
According to legend, it is cast by Pieter Seest and sons in 1782. He has started already in 1781 and then deceased. His sons Christiaan and Jan must have completed the piece, because in 1781 they took control over the foundry.

(translated from het bronzen kanon van de kleine werf/ Nico Brinck)
picture of Oost indisch huis Amsterdam.

cannonmn · 16th January 2012, 10:00 PM

Cornelis, thanks, good information there. I had not seen that view of Ost Ind. Huis before anywhere. I will have to look up the book you mention, I had not heard of it before, my only Dutch cannon book is the Visser collection. Yet I have cannons by Ouderogge and Overney in addition to those of Seest so I like to learn of any sources available on Dutch cannons.

I have some information about Cornelis Ouderogge which has now been put on the web (the family etc. in Rotterdam) but I've found precious little information on Petrus Ouderogge of Leeuwarden. Do you have any suggestions there? I have one of the falcons dated 1681, once owned by Count Innhausen und Knyphausen (not complete name, I have forgotten some of this.) He lived at Nienoord, where the Dutch National Coach Museum is now. I think two of the Overney cannons are still at that place.

15th January 2012, 05:50 PM	#2
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	Found it was operator (me) error! A detailed chart of dimensions and weights follows the ten (10) model photos. Last edited by cannonmn; 15th January 2012 at 06:02 PM.

15th January 2012, 06:16 PM	#5
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	The best book in existence on Dutch cannons (perhaps one of the only ones?) is THE VISSER COLLECTION by Rudi Roth. The late Henk Visser was a hugely wealthy arms dealer from the Netherlands who accumulated one of the world's largest private arms collections, including cannons. He preferred Dutch cannons, and one purchase from I think Indonesia, he got a warehouse full of VOC ordnance, I think over 100 pieces, mostly various sizes of swivel guns. The book depicts all of the non-duplicate Dutch cannons and lists the remainder, with detailed tabulations of measurements, etc. Roth has further classified them by type and subtype, much of which it appears he had to reconstruct from archival documents. I think due to his book, Dutch ordnance has gone from being "least understood" of the world's ordnance to now among the best understood. Roth is a talented draftsman and included in the book full-page, fully-dimensioned drawings of each non-duplicate cannon in the Visser collection. -------------------------------- The Visser Collection: Ordnance: cannon, mortars, swivel-guns, muzzle- and breech-loaders Volume 2 of The Visser Collection: Arms of the Netherlands in the Collection of H.L. Visser, J. P. Puype Authors J. P. Puype, R. Roth Publisher Waanders Publishers, 1996 ISBN 9040098816, 9789040098819 Last edited by cannonmn; 15th January 2012 at 09:21 PM.

16th January 2012, 06:47 PM	#7
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Of the person Pieter Seest are not many details preserved. Seest had registered in the city of Amsterdam and was married. He got work in, the since 1614 existing guns and bell foundry on the corner of de Karthuizerstraat en de Baangracht. Much later he became director of the foundry. This can be read in a number of official pieces. But what do they tell about the person Pieter Seest? We read that he is Born in Holstein, northern Germany, in 1716. He came as a foreigner to Amsterdam, one of the richest cities. In itself nothing special. His predecessors in the foundry were almost all foreigners; from 1681 to 1699 Claude Fremy from a Lotharingen family, from 1699 to 1715 Claes Noorden, also from the city Holstein and Jan Albert de Graven of Celle in West Germany from 1699 to 1729. Between 1730 and 1734 was Nicolaus Muller the founder master, a man with a real German name. The direct predecessor of Pieter Seest was the famous and prolific caster Cyprianus Crans. About 1750 Pieter entered the service with him. Because there was peacetime a lot of church bells were cast. But the East India Company (VOC) was a constant customer of mainly light artillery. Orders for big guns came mainly from Portugal. So there are still big guns of the Crans Artillery in the Army Museum in Lisbon and on the old ramparts of Tanger. Pieter must have worked on this piece. When Cyprianus died in 1755 he became the master caster. The Amsterdam Chamber of the VOC should have had faith in Peter, because orders continued to come in light artillery. In the collection of the 2006 deceased gun collector H. L. Visser Wassenaar were not less than eighteen small guns (Most halfponders) of Seest, all cast for the VOC. Seest also has many church bells cast, of which several exist today. Unfortunately claimed the Germans in World War II many church bells. These were melted for the war industry. Maybe the last product of a Seest cast was a mortar. This piece is on the walls of the Moroccan city of Essaouira. According to legend, it is cast by Pieter Seest and sons in 1782. He has started already in 1781 and then deceased. His sons Christiaan and Jan must have completed the piece, because in 1781 they took control over the foundry. (translated from het bronzen kanon van de kleine werf/ Nico Brinck) picture of Oost indisch huis Amsterdam. Attached Images Last edited by cornelistromp; 16th January 2012 at 06:58 PM.

15th January 2012, 05:21 PM	#1
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	Will do. My photohost is not functioning correctly now but will check periodically and post the photos as soon as that site is working again.

15th January 2012, 05:53 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Well done

15th January 2012, 05:59 PM	#4
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	Model "A" Model "B"

15th January 2012, 06:44 PM	#6
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	If I had all the time and money in the world I'd certainly go to the extensive VOC archives with a hired translator who specialized in "Old Dutch" and see what I could find in the section indexed by the finding aids line I:1:4 http://www.tanap.net/content/voc/fin..._inventory.htm

16th January 2012, 10:00 PM	#8
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	Cornelis, thanks, good information there. I had not seen that view of Ost Ind. Huis before anywhere. I will have to look up the book you mention, I had not heard of it before, my only Dutch cannon book is the Visser collection. Yet I have cannons by Ouderogge and Overney in addition to those of Seest so I like to learn of any sources available on Dutch cannons. I have some information about Cornelis Ouderogge which has now been put on the web (the family etc. in Rotterdam) but I've found precious little information on Petrus Ouderogge of Leeuwarden. Do you have any suggestions there? I have one of the falcons dated 1681, once owned by Count Innhausen und Knyphausen (not complete name, I have forgotten some of this.) He lived at Nienoord, where the Dutch National Coach Museum is now. I think two of the Overney cannons are still at that place.