Long fighting stick for comment/ID

Atlantia · 7th January 2012, 01:59 PM

During a serious swap session, I needed to choose something else to complete the trade and this rather long fighting stick/staff was the only thing that took my eye.
Lovely aged patina on the wood, size: 4' 3-1/2" 131cm.
Can anyone ID?
(Come on Barry, Tim etc!!

)

Tim Simmons · 7th January 2012, 02:32 PM

Very nice indeed. It looks like one could deliver a hefty wack with it. My thoughts on this piece is Africa, perhaps Tchokwe. Eastern Congo/Zambia area?

Atlantia · 7th January 2012, 06:36 PM

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the info. Glad you like it

Best
Gene

VANDOO · 8th January 2012, 05:12 AM

I LIKE IT A LOT

UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE LITTLE INFORMATION ON AFRICAN STICK/ STAFF/ CLUBS. I CAN MAKE A FEW OBSERVATIONS ALL LOGICAL CONJECTURE.

IT WOULD HAVE LIKELY BEEN CARRIED DURING NORMAL VILLAGE LIFE AND NOT TO WAR. JUST A LITTLE SOMETHING TO SETTLE FRIENDLY ARGUMENTS AND LIKELY THE CARVINGS ON THIS ONE NOTED SOME RANK OR PRESTIEGE. THE PICTURE WITH THE DOUBLE DESIGN KIND OF REMINDS ME OF A CROCODILES BACK. IT IS LIKELY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN USED AS A CLUB (TOO SHORT FOR PRACTICAL STAFF FIGHTING). THE LARGER STRIKEING END WOULD NORMALLY BE RESTED ON THE GROUND WHEN IN POLITE COMPANY TO SHOW YOU WERE PEACEFUL. THIS PICTURE OF FUZZY WUZZIES IS AS CLOSE TO SIZE AND USE AS I CAN COME. PERHAPS SOMEONE WITH MORE KNOWLEGE IN ALL THINGS AFRICAN CAN PROVIDE BETTER INFO. GOOD LUCK

Atlantia · 8th January 2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

I LIKE IT A LOT

UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE LITTLE INFORMATION ON AFRICAN STICK/ STAFF/ CLUBS. I CAN MAKE A FEW OBSERVATIONS ALL LOGICAL CONJECTURE.

IT WOULD HAVE LIKELY BEEN CARRIED DURING NORMAL VILLAGE LIFE AND NOT TO WAR. JUST A LITTLE SOMETHING TO SETTLE FRIENDLY ARGUMENTS AND LIKELY THE CARVINGS ON THIS ONE NOTED SOME RANK OR PRESTIEGE. THE PICTURE WITH THE DOUBLE DESIGN KIND OF REMINDS ME OF A CROCODILES BACK. IT IS LIKELY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN USED AS A CLUB (TOO SHORT FOR PRACTICAL STAFF FIGHTING). THE LARGER STRIKEING END WOULD NORMALLY BE RESTED ON THE GROUND WHEN IN POLITE COMPANY TO SHOW YOU WERE PEACEFUL. THIS PICTURE OF FUZZY WUZZIES IS AS CLOSE TO SIZE AND USE AS I CAN COME. PERHAPS SOMEONE WITH MORE KNOWLEGE IN ALL THINGS AFRICAN CAN PROVIDE BETTER INFO. GOOD LUCK

Excellent! Thanks for the help mate.
TBH, I wasn't sure if it was African or where it was from when I saw it, I just liked the designs and the lovely aged patina.
So you agree with Tim on the Arfican origin?
Great picture of the Hadendoa, looking rather understated for a change!
I've had a trawl of the net and can't find anything similar to mine, but I did find an interesting picture of the Hadendoa. This chap certainly has a stick/club and I was interested to see wears his Kaskara upside down across his back!

Best
Gene

Atlantia · 17th January 2012, 01:47 PM

Any further thoughts from anyone?

Iain · 17th January 2012, 02:12 PM

I would wonder if it's actually for stick fighting? I agree it looks African but most of the stick fighting (at least in modern videos of events like the Suri of Ethiopia still practice) the sticks in use seem to be plain and not decorated. Of course this could just be the nice sticks aren't used in these events! However as Barry pointed out I think it is too short for the styles of African stick fighting I am familiar with, most of which require a whipping action, not a clubbing action. This looks fairly inflexible.

I think the pictures of the Hadendoa give a possible insight though, as I think I have rarely seen a cattle herder in an African context not leaning on a stick/staff of some sort. It seems just about the right size for that?

Unfortunately I don't recognize the decorative patterns.

But they don't strike me as being from in the Sahel regions so I think Tim is probably closer with the Zambia idea.

Cheers,

Iain

Atlantia · 17th January 2012, 06:08 PM

Hi Iain,

When it comes ot this stuff I'm truly a stranger in a strange land.
This club of Tim's looks like similar work?
Best
Gene

Iain · 17th January 2012, 06:15 PM

Hi Gene,

I'm also more than a little lost with the clubs and sticks. Certainly looks related to Tim's example.

By the way, before I didn't mean to imply that it couldn't be a weapon or capable of giving a good whack, just not a "fighting stick" in the ritual stick fighting context.

I quite like it in any case. Great patina and obviously something someone put a lot of care and effort into making.

Best,

Iain

Atlantia · 17th January 2012, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Hi Gene,

I'm also more than a little lost with the clubs and sticks. Certainly looks related to Tim's example.

By the way, before I didn't mean to imply that it couldn't be a weapon or capable of giving a good whack, just not a "fighting stick" in the ritual stick fighting context.

I quite like it in any case. Great patina and obviously something someone put a lot of care and effort into making.

Best,

Iain

Hi Iain,

No worries mate, I appreciate the help. Glad you like it

Best
Gene

7th January 2012, 01:59 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Long fighting stick for comment/ID During a serious swap session, I needed to choose something else to complete the trade and this rather long fighting stick/staff was the only thing that took my eye. Lovely aged patina on the wood, size: 4' 3-1/2" 131cm. Can anyone ID? (Come on Barry, Tim etc!! ) Attached Images

8th January 2012, 05:12 AM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I LIKE IT A LOT UNFORTUNATELY I HAVE LITTLE INFORMATION ON AFRICAN STICK/ STAFF/ CLUBS. I CAN MAKE A FEW OBSERVATIONS ALL LOGICAL CONJECTURE. IT WOULD HAVE LIKELY BEEN CARRIED DURING NORMAL VILLAGE LIFE AND NOT TO WAR. JUST A LITTLE SOMETHING TO SETTLE FRIENDLY ARGUMENTS AND LIKELY THE CARVINGS ON THIS ONE NOTED SOME RANK OR PRESTIEGE. THE PICTURE WITH THE DOUBLE DESIGN KIND OF REMINDS ME OF A CROCODILES BACK. IT IS LIKELY IT WOULD HAVE BEEN USED AS A CLUB (TOO SHORT FOR PRACTICAL STAFF FIGHTING). THE LARGER STRIKEING END WOULD NORMALLY BE RESTED ON THE GROUND WHEN IN POLITE COMPANY TO SHOW YOU WERE PEACEFUL. THIS PICTURE OF FUZZY WUZZIES IS AS CLOSE TO SIZE AND USE AS I CAN COME. PERHAPS SOMEONE WITH MORE KNOWLEGE IN ALL THINGS AFRICAN CAN PROVIDE BETTER INFO. GOOD LUCK Attached Images

17th January 2012, 06:08 PM	#8
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Iain, When it comes ot this stuff I'm truly a stranger in a strange land. This club of Tim's looks like similar work? Best Gene Attached Images

7th January 2012, 02:32 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,841	Very nice indeed. It looks like one could deliver a hefty wack with it. My thoughts on this piece is Africa, perhaps Tchokwe. Eastern Congo/Zambia area?

7th January 2012, 06:36 PM	#3
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi Tim, Thanks for the info. Glad you like it Best Gene

17th January 2012, 01:47 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Any further thoughts from anyone?

17th January 2012, 02:12 PM	#7
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	I would wonder if it's actually for stick fighting? I agree it looks African but most of the stick fighting (at least in modern videos of events like the Suri of Ethiopia still practice) the sticks in use seem to be plain and not decorated. Of course this could just be the nice sticks aren't used in these events! However as Barry pointed out I think it is too short for the styles of African stick fighting I am familiar with, most of which require a whipping action, not a clubbing action. This looks fairly inflexible. I think the pictures of the Hadendoa give a possible insight though, as I think I have rarely seen a cattle herder in an African context not leaning on a stick/staff of some sort. It seems just about the right size for that? Unfortunately I don't recognize the decorative patterns. But they don't strike me as being from in the Sahel regions so I think Tim is probably closer with the Zambia idea. Cheers, Iain

17th January 2012, 06:15 PM	#9
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	Hi Gene, I'm also more than a little lost with the clubs and sticks. Certainly looks related to Tim's example. By the way, before I didn't mean to imply that it couldn't be a weapon or capable of giving a good whack, just not a "fighting stick" in the ritual stick fighting context. I quite like it in any case. Great patina and obviously something someone put a lot of care and effort into making. Best, Iain