Wilah nr 4 for identification

[Harley]

Thank you again Alan, can you give me advise for a sheath, or is this also the same as central Java.
And do you think that the blade would look better with a new stain?

regards,
Ben

[A. G. Maisey]

In the pic, the stain looks OK on my screen. I doubt that I'd play with it.

As for dress, I don't know. If I had this in my hand and needed to dress it, I'd probably opt for sandang walikat, maybe an East Jawa sandang walikat, but I suspect that you may not be able to do an SW, because you need to use a segrek, and this is a specialist tool that has no counterpart amongst western tools.

You could probably do a look-a-like SW by making the gandar section in two halves and gluing together and into the atasan. You'd have the form, but not the correct construction, because a sandang walikat is carved from a single piece of wood.

Maybe a scaled down East Jawa gayaman would work OK too.

[Harley]

OK, thanks then i leave it as it is.

I have seen a wile ago a picture of a walikat sheath, but that one has a lose gandar,or is the word sandang meaning that it is from one piece?
I find the idea of a walikat sheath rather nice, it's a whole different shape.
When i was reading the old topic's i came across a picture of a segrek, till then i had now idea what kind of tool it was.


regards,
Ben

[A. G. Maisey]

David, yes, only women attached to a court were expected to kill themselves in the event that the court was overrun by an enemy. That's the purpose of the patrem:- to kill oneself.

Ben, 'sandang', or properly 'sandhang', means 'clothing'. 'Walikat' means 'rib'. Thus, "rib dress". Maybe because it resembles a rib, maybe because it is most often worn under a jacket, next to the ribs.

In East Jawa they often make SW with a separate gandar, and sometimes a pendok, in Central Jawa it should be one piece.

[Harley]

Thank you Alan, for the explanation and I'll see what i can make of it.

What you said about a patrem is very interesting, i never heard that

regards,
Ben

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Harley

Thank you Alan, for the explanation and I'll see what i can make of it.
regards,
Ben

Ben,
These pictures show 2 examples of sandang walikat sheaths (in one piece)matching with a short blade like yours.
Regards

[Harley]

Thank you again Jean, these are very nice examples to work from, i hope i can come a little in the near of these ones, but it will be very difficult to make in one piece, the only advantage is that the blade is not so long.

regards,
Ben

[David]

Originally Posted by Harley

What you said about a patrem is very interesting, i never heard that

A agree, this is also the first time i have heard this and it is very interesting indeed...

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Harley

What you said about a patrem is very interesting, i never heard that

The third one who never heard this! Very interesting indeed.

Regards,

Detlef

[Sajen]

Alan,

could be this keris by a blade length (without pesi) from 22,5 cm a genuine patrem keris?

Regards,

Detlef

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David, yes, only women attached to a court were expected to kill themselves in the event that the court was overrun by an enemy. That's the purpose of the patrem:- to kill oneself.

Ben, 'sandang', or properly 'sandhang', means 'clothing'. 'Walikat' means 'rib'. Thus, "rib dress". Maybe because it resembles a rib, maybe because it is most often worn under a jacket, next to the ribs.

In East Jawa they often make SW with a separate gandar, and sometimes a pendok, in Central Jawa it should be one piece.

Alan, by this statement, wouldnt it be proper also to say that all genuinely old made patrems are kraton empu made?