Need Help to Identify Pamor and Tangguh

ivoke · 31st December 2011, 08:18 PM

http://silat-melayu.blogspot.com/200...and-keris.html

how to make a keris stand up

Happy Newyear

A. G. Maisey · 31st December 2011, 09:22 PM

The word "empu" or "mpu" originally was simply a term of respect (in Old Javanese), roughly equivalent the modern "tuan", or "sir" in English, however, with the development of Modern Javanese, it became a title for a master of literature or an armourer, especially one attached to a karaton ( the seat of a ruler). These karaton empus also carry a title that is in accord with rank within the karaton, as distinct from profession within the karaton. In Bahasa Indonesia it carries the sense of a master craftsmen.

In Jawa it is possible for a person who is not a part of karaton hierarchy to become known as an empu, because of recognition by the common people.

A keris can be made by a pandai keris ( keris craftsman), or by a common smith , a tukang besi or pande wesi.

In Bali the makers of keris were and are members of the Pande Clan, they are not attached to the any ruler in the sense that Karaton empus in Jawa are, but they have the duty to respond to a call from the ruler of their area.

Regarding the age of the blade which I have owned, and the blade which is owned by Azman.

The blade which I have owned is perfectly finished and has not been subjected to any concentrated processing to produce the appearance of age.

Based upon what I can see the photos, I believe that the blade of Azman's keris has been subjected to processing intended to give the appearance of age.

I must emphasise that this processing is not carried out by a maker with any attempt to defraud nor to mislead, it is done because this is the appearance which is favoured by Javanese people. However, dealers in keris are not always particularly forthcoming with the true age of a keris. A recently made keris can very often be made of archaic iron, but all that means is that the iron is old, not the keris.

Azman, I believe that if you examine the pitting in your blade under magnification, you will find that there is no active rust. If you do find active rust, I suggest that you carefully remove this by picking it out of the pits with a needle.

The oil you are using is a traditional oil, but it is not necessarily the best protection, it is very probably based on coconut oil, which over time tends to leave a nasty residue on the blade.

Good quality gun oil will give you excellent protection, and this can be improved by keeping the blade out of contact with any cellulose material, such as wood.

I use plastic sleeves to store my keris.

A good mix for a scented oil is to use either light machine oil, or medicinal paraffin as a 50% base, and add sandalwood oil @ 45% and kenanga oil @ 5%. The percentages are not critical, and neither is the sandalwood and kananga oil, you can use rose oil, jasmine oil, or any other strongly scented oil that you prefer.

As to frequency of oil application. I have many blades which I have not oiled in years, and I live in a marine climate, 25 meters or so from salt water. The essence of preservation is to do it right in the first place, and it is essential to keep blades away from contact with cellulose materials --- paper, cardboard, wood etc.

Marcokeris · 1st January 2012, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivoke

http://silat-melayu.blogspot.com/200...and-keris.html

how to make a keris stand up

Happy Newyear

Of course... "tricks (IMO) are: patiente, balance and TRY TO INCREASE THE BEARING SURFACE OF THE BLADE.

ivoke · 2nd January 2012, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcokeris

Of course... "tricks (IMO) are: patiente, balance and TRY TO INCREASE THE BEARING SURFACE OF THE BLADE.

-use a 3 to 9 luk keris
-use a rough underground (karpet)
-position the point of the keris at 45 degrees to the neck of the sarong
-make the hulu face outwards
-make sure the tip toutches the sarong.

i can stand up most of my keris with these guidelines....the others are to heavy and the sarong wont stay put.

ivo

A. G. Maisey · 2nd January 2012, 09:05 PM

What I will now write is not meant to be in any way critical of anybody, and I do acknowledge that the game of balancing a keris on its point is widespread.

I first heard about a keris "standing by itself" perhaps 50 years ago. The story I heard was about a particular keris which did raise itself from a horizontal position, and stand on its point by itself.

I heard similar stories about keris "standing by itself" over the period through to the 1980's. During the 1980's the meaning of a keris "standing by itself" seemed to undergo a change from being a magical thing that a keris could accomplish unaided, or perhaps with the assistance of prayer and meditation of a human intermediary, to being a parlour trick that involved the assistance of a person and various props, such as the support of the top of the scabbard, or the use of weathered wood or a similar rough surface to stand it on.

Instead of being a demonstration of the power of the keris, or perhaps the spiritual power of a person, it became a game for amusement. A game that was indulged in by many, if not most keris collectors in Jawa, and then this game spread to western collectors.

Since at least the 14th century the keris has been the symbol of masculinity in Javanese society.

In traditional Javanese society the keris is accorded an equal degree of respect as would be the custodian of the keris. I can clearly recall many, many years ago when I was about to step over a keris that had been placed on the floor. A very distinguished Javanese gentleman pushed me off balance so that I fell and thus did not step over the keris. He apologized and explained to me that to step over the keris was the ultimate insult to not only the custodian of the keris, but to all those who had been its custodian previously, and also to its maker, and that such an action could have had very unfortunate consequences for me if he had not stopped me.

It is more than clear that the keris is something which should be treated with the same degree of respect that one would extend to one's fellow man.

However, in a situation where the keris has become merely an object for accumulation, it is equally clear that those who simply accumulate the keris, fail to extend to the keris the respect which is due to a cultural icon that in its culture of origin was representative of its custodian.

Apart from the question of respect , there is another matter that one should consider when playing the keris-balancing game, and that is the protection of wealth. There is a risk that if a keris falls it may damage the keris itself, or its hilt, of some other thing that it may strike. To my mind, this is a very good reason not to play at keris balancing, even if one has no desire to treat a keris with respect.

A keris is not a toy.

It is a cultural icon that has the status of being the symbol of a man, or as is found in an inscription from Candi Sukuh, as translated by Martha Muusses :-

"--- the sign of masculinity is the essence of the world."

I do acknowledge that for the simple collector the keris is no more than a rather odd looking dagger type thing, that carries some sort of attraction because of its odd shape, its artistic construction, or perhaps the poorly understood magical stories associated with it.

However, if one is to progress from being just an accumulator of toys to being a serious student of perhaps the most potent icon of any culture, then a good place to start might be by ceasing to play with the keris for which one has accepted responsibility, and move towards treating these keris with just a little respect.

PenangsangII · 3rd January 2012, 12:47 AM

Very well said Alan, and I cant agree more. Treating keris with respect also means not to treat it as if its a "circus act" to the amusement of audience.

David · 3rd January 2012, 04:29 AM

I completely agree...

ivoke · 3rd January 2012, 07:47 AM

in my case, i make a difference,

- the ones i bought "from the bay"...i tend to treat them with less respect as i should

-the ones i was given by friends and family: they are treated as they should be

-the ones that are in the family home in Bali: no comment on those.

31st December 2011, 08:18 PM	#1
ivoke Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 20	http://silat-melayu.blogspot.com/200...and-keris.html how to make a keris stand up Happy Newyear

31st December 2011, 09:22 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	The word "empu" or "mpu" originally was simply a term of respect (in Old Javanese), roughly equivalent the modern "tuan", or "sir" in English, however, with the development of Modern Javanese, it became a title for a master of literature or an armourer, especially one attached to a karaton ( the seat of a ruler). These karaton empus also carry a title that is in accord with rank within the karaton, as distinct from profession within the karaton. In Bahasa Indonesia it carries the sense of a master craftsmen. In Jawa it is possible for a person who is not a part of karaton hierarchy to become known as an empu, because of recognition by the common people. A keris can be made by a pandai keris ( keris craftsman), or by a common smith , a tukang besi or pande wesi. In Bali the makers of keris were and are members of the Pande Clan, they are not attached to the any ruler in the sense that Karaton empus in Jawa are, but they have the duty to respond to a call from the ruler of their area. Regarding the age of the blade which I have owned, and the blade which is owned by Azman. The blade which I have owned is perfectly finished and has not been subjected to any concentrated processing to produce the appearance of age. Based upon what I can see the photos, I believe that the blade of Azman's keris has been subjected to processing intended to give the appearance of age. I must emphasise that this processing is not carried out by a maker with any attempt to defraud nor to mislead, it is done because this is the appearance which is favoured by Javanese people. However, dealers in keris are not always particularly forthcoming with the true age of a keris. A recently made keris can very often be made of archaic iron, but all that means is that the iron is old, not the keris. Azman, I believe that if you examine the pitting in your blade under magnification, you will find that there is no active rust. If you do find active rust, I suggest that you carefully remove this by picking it out of the pits with a needle. The oil you are using is a traditional oil, but it is not necessarily the best protection, it is very probably based on coconut oil, which over time tends to leave a nasty residue on the blade. Good quality gun oil will give you excellent protection, and this can be improved by keeping the blade out of contact with any cellulose material, such as wood. I use plastic sleeves to store my keris. A good mix for a scented oil is to use either light machine oil, or medicinal paraffin as a 50% base, and add sandalwood oil @ 45% and kenanga oil @ 5%. The percentages are not critical, and neither is the sandalwood and kananga oil, you can use rose oil, jasmine oil, or any other strongly scented oil that you prefer. As to frequency of oil application. I have many blades which I have not oiled in years, and I live in a marine climate, 25 meters or so from salt water. The essence of preservation is to do it right in the first place, and it is essential to keep blades away from contact with cellulose materials --- paper, cardboard, wood etc.

2nd January 2012, 09:05 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,991	What I will now write is not meant to be in any way critical of anybody, and I do acknowledge that the game of balancing a keris on its point is widespread. I first heard about a keris "standing by itself" perhaps 50 years ago. The story I heard was about a particular keris which did raise itself from a horizontal position, and stand on its point by itself. I heard similar stories about keris "standing by itself" over the period through to the 1980's. During the 1980's the meaning of a keris "standing by itself" seemed to undergo a change from being a magical thing that a keris could accomplish unaided, or perhaps with the assistance of prayer and meditation of a human intermediary, to being a parlour trick that involved the assistance of a person and various props, such as the support of the top of the scabbard, or the use of weathered wood or a similar rough surface to stand it on. Instead of being a demonstration of the power of the keris, or perhaps the spiritual power of a person, it became a game for amusement. A game that was indulged in by many, if not most keris collectors in Jawa, and then this game spread to western collectors. Since at least the 14th century the keris has been the symbol of masculinity in Javanese society. In traditional Javanese society the keris is accorded an equal degree of respect as would be the custodian of the keris. I can clearly recall many, many years ago when I was about to step over a keris that had been placed on the floor. A very distinguished Javanese gentleman pushed me off balance so that I fell and thus did not step over the keris. He apologized and explained to me that to step over the keris was the ultimate insult to not only the custodian of the keris, but to all those who had been its custodian previously, and also to its maker, and that such an action could have had very unfortunate consequences for me if he had not stopped me. It is more than clear that the keris is something which should be treated with the same degree of respect that one would extend to one's fellow man. However, in a situation where the keris has become merely an object for accumulation, it is equally clear that those who simply accumulate the keris, fail to extend to the keris the respect which is due to a cultural icon that in its culture of origin was representative of its custodian. Apart from the question of respect , there is another matter that one should consider when playing the keris-balancing game, and that is the protection of wealth. There is a risk that if a keris falls it may damage the keris itself, or its hilt, of some other thing that it may strike. To my mind, this is a very good reason not to play at keris balancing, even if one has no desire to treat a keris with respect. A keris is not a toy. It is a cultural icon that has the status of being the symbol of a man, or as is found in an inscription from Candi Sukuh, as translated by Martha Muusses :- "--- the sign of masculinity is the essence of the world." I do acknowledge that for the simple collector the keris is no more than a rather odd looking dagger type thing, that carries some sort of attraction because of its odd shape, its artistic construction, or perhaps the poorly understood magical stories associated with it. However, if one is to progress from being just an accumulator of toys to being a serious student of perhaps the most potent icon of any culture, then a good place to start might be by ceasing to play with the keris for which one has accepted responsibility, and move towards treating these keris with just a little respect.

3rd January 2012, 12:47 AM	#6
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Very well said Alan, and I cant agree more. Treating keris with respect also means not to treat it as if its a "circus act" to the amusement of audience.

3rd January 2012, 04:29 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I completely agree...

3rd January 2012, 07:47 AM	#8
ivoke Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 20	in my case, i make a difference, - the ones i bought "from the bay"...i tend to treat them with less respect as i should -the ones i was given by friends and family: they are treated as they should be -the ones that are in the family home in Bali: no comment on those.