Kindjal and tulvar for review...

Jens Nordlunde · 26th December 2011, 05:05 PM

On this forum there is someone who has/have had a sword blade with a katar and a trisula stamp. I have a picture, but can't show it as I can't ask the owner, but it is dated June 27th 2007, so maybe a search will give a result.
Jens

katana · 27th December 2011, 03:32 PM

I would definately etch the blade of the Tulwar.....I too, see some 'activity' in the surface of the blade

Kind Regards David

Jim McDougall · 27th December 2011, 05:58 PM

It is great to see this 'katar' stamp resurface, and we did have some great discussion concerning this in 2007, it seems in most cases this deep stamp appeared accompanied by a trisula. I think it will be OK to post the images from that thread Jens so I will add it as shown from a khanda hilted sabre...in it appears to be were rehilted with tulwar blade carrying this stamp.

Regarding the katar stamp. it seems that the Bundi attribution to the blade on this weapon by Stan may be quite well placed. In 2010, in his outstanding article, "The Royal Katars of Bundi" ('South Asian Studies 25), Jens notes that "...the katar has been used on some Bundi coins and stamps.On the coins it was not used as a mintmark, but as an emblem on the obverse side, so the katar must have had a meaning to the ruling family". The distinct use of the this weapon on the coinage suggests that symbolically it is quite possible the same type stamp of the katar may have been used on weapons as an arsenal type stamp. Though not proven, this does seem quite plausible, and both Jens and Nidhin Olikara have shown in several cases where the use of nusimatic devices have been instrumental in identifying markings on weapons.

In the discussions in 2007, I had been researching the possible source of the katar marking and suggested that possibly it may have been associated with the Kattees people of Gujerat from references in Egerton (1880. p.137). The author cites "Translations of Lit. Soc. of Bombay" 1813 and describes the use of the katar symbolically in oaths, contracts and all such matters as legally binding by its mark. My thoughts were that perhaps this mark of the katar when placed upon any important document might be used in weapons as well. In retrospect of course, the subsequent work of Jens in the Bundi references seems far more likely, and I have noted the Kattee reference simply to note that aspect previously covered.

Atlantia · 27th December 2011, 06:51 PM

HI hbhansen

Welcome to the forums. Very nice weapons you have shown us.

I'd personally test etch the kindjal blades too, they seem like quality examples!
You never know what might just possibly be in there.........

Best
Gene

hbhansen · 28th December 2011, 10:17 PM

Hi again

Thanks for all your answers !

Today I tried etching both the tulwar and the kindjal. Nothing appeared

Then I tried holding it into strong light, at different angels, to see if i could spot somthing, but still nothing appears...
I also held a magnet to the hilt and it was not magnetic.

Best regards
Henrik

Rick · 29th December 2011, 03:05 AM

Uhm, this sword deserves a thread of its own in the European Forum, please .

hbhansen · 29th December 2011, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Uhm, this sword deserves a thread of its own in the European Forum, please .

You're right Rick. I've just removed it.

Best

27th December 2011, 05:58 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	It is great to see this 'katar' stamp resurface, and we did have some great discussion concerning this in 2007, it seems in most cases this deep stamp appeared accompanied by a trisula. I think it will be OK to post the images from that thread Jens so I will add it as shown from a khanda hilted sabre...in it appears to be were rehilted with tulwar blade carrying this stamp. Regarding the katar stamp. it seems that the Bundi attribution to the blade on this weapon by Stan may be quite well placed. In 2010, in his outstanding article, "The Royal Katars of Bundi" ('South Asian Studies 25), Jens notes that "...the katar has been used on some Bundi coins and stamps.On the coins it was not used as a mintmark, but as an emblem on the obverse side, so the katar must have had a meaning to the ruling family". The distinct use of the this weapon on the coinage suggests that symbolically it is quite possible the same type stamp of the katar may have been used on weapons as an arsenal type stamp. Though not proven, this does seem quite plausible, and both Jens and Nidhin Olikara have shown in several cases where the use of nusimatic devices have been instrumental in identifying markings on weapons. In the discussions in 2007, I had been researching the possible source of the katar marking and suggested that possibly it may have been associated with the Kattees people of Gujerat from references in Egerton (1880. p.137). The author cites "Translations of Lit. Soc. of Bombay" 1813 and describes the use of the katar symbolically in oaths, contracts and all such matters as legally binding by its mark. My thoughts were that perhaps this mark of the katar when placed upon any important document might be used in weapons as well. In retrospect of course, the subsequent work of Jens in the Bundi references seems far more likely, and I have noted the Kattee reference simply to note that aspect previously covered. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 27th December 2011 at 06:21 PM.

27th December 2011, 06:51 PM	#4
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	HI hbhansen Welcome to the forums. Very nice weapons you have shown us. I'd personally test etch the kindjal blades too, they seem like quality examples! You never know what might just possibly be in there......... Best Gene Attached Images Last edited by Atlantia; 27th December 2011 at 07:34 PM.

28th December 2011, 10:17 PM	#5
hbhansen Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Denmark Posts: 89	Hi again Thanks for all your answers ! Today I tried etching both the tulwar and the kindjal. Nothing appeared Then I tried holding it into strong light, at different angels, to see if i could spot somthing, but still nothing appears... I also held a magnet to the hilt and it was not magnetic. Best regards Henrik Last edited by hbhansen; 29th December 2011 at 09:31 PM.

26th December 2011, 05:05 PM	#1
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	On this forum there is someone who has/have had a sword blade with a katar and a trisula stamp. I have a picture, but can't show it as I can't ask the owner, but it is dated June 27th 2007, so maybe a search will give a result. Jens

27th December 2011, 03:32 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	I would definately etch the blade of the Tulwar.....I too, see some 'activity' in the surface of the blade Kind Regards David

29th December 2011, 03:05 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Uhm, this sword deserves a thread of its own in the European Forum, please .