Earliest known twist core blades outside West-Europe

[Lee]

Originally Posted by Richard R.

Do you think that your second Yataghan is to be dated before 1770?

I had only viewed the mark on the older yataghan in abstraction previously, but if we accept the bottom line in the cartouche on the lower blade as the date 1204 (=1799, just barely 18th century) and interpret the similar region of the upper cartouche as being an honest date, then 1001 (=1592).

Originally Posted by Richard R.

How old you think that your protobudiak is?

I wish I knew. I am going to guess that the mounts were serviceable and in current 'style' when the spear left home, likely about a hundred years ago. When I dismounted the blade, there was no evidence of fresh rust in the mastic. However, the tang has heavy stable dark oxidation, just as I have observed in older (koto) Japanese swords, so I suspect this spearhead was far from new when last mounted. I have tried to lure the forum community into trying to work out geography versus chronology in the styles of these lance heads and that should ultimately be possible, but I doubt there will be reliable absolute dating unless some new technology emerges.

Originally Posted by Richard R.

"Merry Christmas" from Switzerland!

Vielen Dank und gleichfalls.

[Richard R.]

Thank you for the very good pictures. Could you send me pictures where I can see the whole Yataghans? I attache some pictures of a yataghan of my pattern-blade-collection. I need some help. Any ideas about the age and origin of this blade?

You also can find two pictures of a polished 9th Century twist core Western-European Spearhead to compare with your Eastern Spearhead.

Regards

Richard

[Lee]

As requested, an overall picture of the yataghans (caution - the order is reversed from the close up of the cartouches above) and also of an inscription on the newer blade.

Unfortunately, I am no yataghan expert, having only collected a few with good examples of the twist-core work, so we will have to rely on other members to assist with the age and origin of your example.

Your winged spearhead is most attractive and it is nice to see the pattern-welding brought back to its former glory. Presented in polish, the nature of the bands of twist core is very reminiscent of what we are seeing on the yataghans.

I trust that you are familiar with Stefan Mäder's work in applying the Japanese style polish to reveal features in medieval steel.

[chregu]

sali richi
ich begrüsse dich recht herzlich hier im Forum
wir kennen uns. smile
gruss chregu

[Richard R.]

Hello Lee

Thank you for the pictures.

Originally Posted by Lee

I trust that you are familiar with Stefan Mäder's work in applying the Japanese style polish to reveal features in medieval steel.

Yes I studied his book (German Edition). I think it's one of the best researched publication regarding the structure of early medieval European blades made from from "bloomery iron" and the question if and how they have been polished.

Regards, Richard

P.S.: Hallo Chregu, Schöne Festtage!