A QUESTION OF TIMELINES AND EVOLUTION OF FORM

PenangsangII · 15th December 2011, 12:52 PM

IMHO, the timeline when the Moro Kalis appeared could be around the time of European intervention in Nusantara politics, most probably around the fall of Gowa (Makassar) to the Dutch and its ally, the Bone Bugis in 1669. Most of the Makassarese and their Bugis allies moved to Kalimantan (Samarinda), Peninsular, Sumatra, Nusa Tenggara, even as far as Jawa, esp Cirebon.

In the attempt to match the Dutch's arsenal such as firearms, the Makassarese and the Buginese developed a slashing weapon based from the revered dagger called keris. this is very prevalent in the Samarinda, Peninsular and Sumatra.

Their cousin, the Moros copied the design for the very same reason, though they might not understand the philosophy behind the keris perabut. As we can see today, the ricikan of the Moro keris has no real meaning as it was just an attempt to copy the original Buginese/Makassarese keris sundang in samarinda, sumatra and Peninsular.

it can be safely said that kalis of the moros could have been first surfaced in the late 17th C.

VANDOO · 15th December 2011, 07:58 PM

IT IS ESTIMATED ISLAM FRIST ARRIVED IN THE PHILIPPINES BETWEEN THE 12TH AND 14TH CENTURYS. FROM WHAT I HAVE FOUND THE FIRST RECORDED CONTACT AND INTRODUCTION OF ISLAM TO THE PHILIPPINES WAS IN 1380. A TRADER FROM ARABIA ONE KARIM UL MAKHUDUM WAS CREDITED WITH BEING THE FIRST TO REACH THE SULU ARCHIPELAGO AND JOLO. THE FIRST MOSQUE WAS ESTABLISHED ON SIMUNUL IN MINDANAO IN THE 14 TH. CENTURY.
THE END OF THE MAJAPAHIT CIVILIZATION AROUND 1468 AND CHANGES OVER THE NEXT 300 YEARS UNDER ISLAMIC INFLUENCE WAS NO DOUBT SIMULAR IN THE PHILIPPINES. THE TIMELINE AROUND 1700 FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PHILIPPINE KRIS SWORD AS WELL AS LARGER SLASHING WEAPONS ELSWHERE IN THE REGION AND THE REASONS FOR IT SEEM TO FIT. IF THE KRIS DEVELOPED FROM FORMS IN INDONESIA AND MALAYSIA AT THAT TIME THE STYLIZED FORMS WOULD ALREADY HAVE BEEN PRESENT AND IN GENERAL USE.
SO THIS WOULD SEEM TO AT LEAST GIVE US A GENERAL IDEA OF THE TIMELINE AND REASONS FOR THINGS DEVELOPING AS THEY DID AND WHERE THE INFLUENCES IN FORM AND DEVELOPMENT CAME FROM. THANKS

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2011, 10:45 PM

Going back a few years there was a very thoughtful article written by a forum member that associated development of the Moro style of keris with slave raids.

I've forgotten the details, but I do recall being very impressed with article. Perhaps somebody may be able to provide a link?

Rick · 15th December 2011, 11:12 PM

This is of interest possibly .
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=iranun

15th December 2011, 12:52 PM	#1
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	IMHO, the timeline when the Moro Kalis appeared could be around the time of European intervention in Nusantara politics, most probably around the fall of Gowa (Makassar) to the Dutch and its ally, the Bone Bugis in 1669. Most of the Makassarese and their Bugis allies moved to Kalimantan (Samarinda), Peninsular, Sumatra, Nusa Tenggara, even as far as Jawa, esp Cirebon. In the attempt to match the Dutch's arsenal such as firearms, the Makassarese and the Buginese developed a slashing weapon based from the revered dagger called keris. this is very prevalent in the Samarinda, Peninsular and Sumatra. Their cousin, the Moros copied the design for the very same reason, though they might not understand the philosophy behind the keris perabut. As we can see today, the ricikan of the Moro keris has no real meaning as it was just an attempt to copy the original Buginese/Makassarese keris sundang in samarinda, sumatra and Peninsular. it can be safely said that kalis of the moros could have been first surfaced in the late 17th C.

15th December 2011, 07:58 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	IT IS ESTIMATED ISLAM FRIST ARRIVED IN THE PHILIPPINES BETWEEN THE 12TH AND 14TH CENTURYS. FROM WHAT I HAVE FOUND THE FIRST RECORDED CONTACT AND INTRODUCTION OF ISLAM TO THE PHILIPPINES WAS IN 1380. A TRADER FROM ARABIA ONE KARIM UL MAKHUDUM WAS CREDITED WITH BEING THE FIRST TO REACH THE SULU ARCHIPELAGO AND JOLO. THE FIRST MOSQUE WAS ESTABLISHED ON SIMUNUL IN MINDANAO IN THE 14 TH. CENTURY. THE END OF THE MAJAPAHIT CIVILIZATION AROUND 1468 AND CHANGES OVER THE NEXT 300 YEARS UNDER ISLAMIC INFLUENCE WAS NO DOUBT SIMULAR IN THE PHILIPPINES. THE TIMELINE AROUND 1700 FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PHILIPPINE KRIS SWORD AS WELL AS LARGER SLASHING WEAPONS ELSWHERE IN THE REGION AND THE REASONS FOR IT SEEM TO FIT. IF THE KRIS DEVELOPED FROM FORMS IN INDONESIA AND MALAYSIA AT THAT TIME THE STYLIZED FORMS WOULD ALREADY HAVE BEEN PRESENT AND IN GENERAL USE. SO THIS WOULD SEEM TO AT LEAST GIVE US A GENERAL IDEA OF THE TIMELINE AND REASONS FOR THINGS DEVELOPING AS THEY DID AND WHERE THE INFLUENCES IN FORM AND DEVELOPMENT CAME FROM. THANKS

15th December 2011, 10:45 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,028	Going back a few years there was a very thoughtful article written by a forum member that associated development of the Moro style of keris with slave raids. I've forgotten the details, but I do recall being very impressed with article. Perhaps somebody may be able to provide a link?

15th December 2011, 11:12 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,340	This is of interest possibly . http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=iranun