Wilah from?

Harley · 10th December 2011, 08:11 PM

Thanks Jean,

They are much better looking then the ones i found.
In the last 2 pictures you can see swastika's in the engraving!

regards,
Ben

Sajen · 10th December 2011, 08:22 PM

Here two more, again taken from the book "Keris Bali Bersejarah".

Jean · 10th December 2011, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley

Thanks Jean,

They are much better looking then the ones i found.
In the last 2 pictures you can see swastika's in the engraving!

regards,
Ben

You are right about the engraved swastika Hindu motif which is common in Bali/ Lombok. This polychrome wooden hilt is part of an old family kris from Lombok.
The second hilt made from bone has a turtle skin cover, and the first one is made from bone and black horn.
Best regards
Jean

Harley · 10th December 2011, 09:45 PM

Thank you Detlef,

The one on the right is very nice!

Jean,

It was kind a strange to see that, but now i get it, thanks for the explanation!

regards,
Ben

David · 10th December 2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

You are right about the engraved swastika Hindu motif which is common in Bali/ Lombok. This polychrome wooden hilt is part of an old family kris from Lombok.

It is my understanding that the swastika is considered a symbol of Ganesha in Hindu practice.

A. G. Maisey · 10th December 2011, 11:53 PM

Actually Ganesh adopted the svastika as one of his symbols.

The symbol itself has existed in Hindu belief for very much longer than Ganesh, and in Hindu belief generally it is understood as a positive sign; since Ganesh is the diety who is concerned with beginnings and success, it is fitting that this symbol should have been adopted for use by Ganesh.

Ganesh has probably only existed as a Hindu deity since around the 3rd or 4th century current era, and the sect of Ganapatya where Ganesh is recognised as the supreme deity did not arise until about the 800's or 900's.

In Hindu belief we say "svastika", not "swastika". The root is Sanscrit:- "asti" which means "it is", a positive affirmation. I've forgotten the "su" and "ka" meaings, but I think "su" might be an intensifier, and "ka" indicates the word form.

tunggulametung · 11th December 2011, 06:15 AM

Hello, this swastika ornamentation is more commonly known as "patra Cina" in Bali. Thanks

Harley · 11th December 2011, 08:45 PM

Now guys, this is where i am now, the hilt is to thin, the length is in my opinion ok, also i think there must be some engraving on the middle piece, or some raised sections like the picture on the right from Detlef, so i must make a new one.
I've made sheath dark because i didn't like the light color with the pelet, but i can adjust it to lighter or darker.

regards,
Ben

A. G. Maisey · 11th December 2011, 09:00 PM

I've seen many genuine Bali ensembles that are worse than this. Ben. You've done a good job.

If you feel that you need to do the hilt again, may I suggest that you very carefully study the proportions of any published examples you can find and try to copy those proportions? My feeling is that hilt may be a whisker too long.

10th December 2011, 08:22 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,270	Here two more, again taken from the book "Keris Bali Bersejarah". Attached Images

11th December 2011, 08:45 PM	#8
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	Now guys, this is where i am now, the hilt is to thin, the length is in my opinion ok, also i think there must be some engraving on the middle piece, or some raised sections like the picture on the right from Detlef, so i must make a new one. I've made sheath dark because i didn't like the light color with the pelet, but i can adjust it to lighter or darker. regards, Ben Attached Images

10th December 2011, 08:11 PM	#1
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	Thanks Jean, They are much better looking then the ones i found. In the last 2 pictures you can see swastika's in the engraving! regards, Ben

10th December 2011, 09:45 PM	#4
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	Thank you Detlef, The one on the right is very nice! Jean, It was kind a strange to see that, but now i get it, thanks for the explanation! regards, Ben

10th December 2011, 11:53 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Actually Ganesh adopted the svastika as one of his symbols. The symbol itself has existed in Hindu belief for very much longer than Ganesh, and in Hindu belief generally it is understood as a positive sign; since Ganesh is the diety who is concerned with beginnings and success, it is fitting that this symbol should have been adopted for use by Ganesh. Ganesh has probably only existed as a Hindu deity since around the 3rd or 4th century current era, and the sect of Ganapatya where Ganesh is recognised as the supreme deity did not arise until about the 800's or 900's. In Hindu belief we say "svastika", not "swastika". The root is Sanscrit:- "asti" which means "it is", a positive affirmation. I've forgotten the "su" and "ka" meaings, but I think "su" might be an intensifier, and "ka" indicates the word form.

11th December 2011, 06:15 AM	#7
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Hello, this swastika ornamentation is more commonly known as "patra Cina" in Bali. Thanks

11th December 2011, 09:00 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	I've seen many genuine Bali ensembles that are worse than this. Ben. You've done a good job. If you feel that you need to do the hilt again, may I suggest that you very carefully study the proportions of any published examples you can find and try to copy those proportions? My feeling is that hilt may be a whisker too long.