Keris Blambangan Pamor Nyekrak

Jean · 10th December 2011, 02:56 PM

Pamor luluhan is mentioned and described on page 340 of the EK.
Best regards

Karttikeya · 10th December 2011, 03:47 PM

Pak Alan, I don't think that nyekrak means bent or bengkok in Bahasa. Actually I do not know what is translation of nyekrak in Bahasa, but I am sure nyekrak does not mean bent. Maybe anybody can help to translate nyekrak in Bahasa or even English is much better. Even if nyekrak means bent or bengkok and referred to your statement that "the thinking is that because the surface rises and falls a lot, that surface is bent." I still cannot imagine that. If you handle this blade then you will know what I mean nyekrak, anyway I believe you already knew it in fact. Or probably you can see the photographs of sor-soran, I think these 2 photos are quite clear which impress high relief surface. Not all pamor miring are nyekrak, but all pamor nyekrak are definitely pamor miring. If we see low and slanted gandik and gilig blade (again, I do not know how to translate gilig in English), I deal with Blambangan blade.

Karttikeya · 10th December 2011, 03:48 PM

Jean, thank you for the informations.

tunggulametung · 10th December 2011, 04:19 PM

Nyekrak is rough and gilig is rounded

Karttikeya · 10th December 2011, 04:41 PM

Thank you for your enlightenment, tunggulametung. Yes, nyekrak is something like rough, but only rough does not fit on applying all nyekrak features on the related blade. Word rough is too common to convey basic understanding of nyekrak. Yes, sure you know what is the meaning of nyekrak by saying nyekrak is simply rough, but for anybody who never heard nyekrak, rough sounds puzzle. Regarding gilig, is it similiar with ngelimpa or wuwung?

tunggulametung · 10th December 2011, 04:53 PM

yes

A. G. Maisey · 10th December 2011, 09:23 PM

Thanks Jean.

One of my faults:- I don't read the keris books much; I've looked at that entry now, and it is in fact what my understanding was, even though I've not heard the term in keris related discussion. My vocabulary of keris terms depends upon what I have heard used in conversation with people in Jawa, as does my vocab of Indonesian and Javanese. I don't retain things very well from books.

With the word "nyekrak", as I've said, I've not heard this word used in a keris related discussion, in fact, I don't know the word. I do know "krak", which is not Indonesian, but Javanese and it means "bent", I've been told that in a different context it can mean "extremely angry".

After having read the description of what is meant by "nyekrak" I very strongly suspect that the word is not "nyekrak" at all, but correctly "nyekerak". I'm pretty sure that "kerak" is used in Indonesian as well as Javanese.

Pronunciation of both nyekrak and nyekerak would be virtually indistinguishable, only context would provide meaning.

The root for nyekerak is kerak, and kerak means "very old and dry", or as it is commonly used "crusty" its what you call the rice crust that sticks to the pan. You would use the same word --- kerak --- for mud that had splashed up onto the side of your car and dried there as a crust.

Nyekerak then becomes a perfectly understandable description for the particular quality of a type of pamor :- its rough like rice crust in a pan. Describes it perfectly.

As for gilig, it is not rounded, but cylindrical. In Javanese round or spherical is "bunder", gilig is also Javanese and it means cylindrical. Certainly, a segment of a cylinder can be rounded, but gilig does not mean round. I do not know if not gilig is used in Indonesian, but in Indonesian, the Javanese "bunder" becomes "bundar".

Root of "ngelimpa" is "limpa" = "spleen". A blade that is ngelimpa has an ovoid cross section, like the spleen.

"Wuwung" is "roof", a blade that has a cross section with a sharply defined ada-ada could be said to have a wuwung cross section.

I do not think that "gilig", which means "cylindrical" can be taken as a synonym for "spleen-like" or "roof".

ferrylaki · 13th December 2011, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karttikeya

Thank you for your enlightenment, tunggulametung. Yes, nyekrak is something like rough, but only rough does not fit on applying all nyekrak features on the related blade. Word rough is too common to convey basic understanding of nyekrak. Yes, sure you know what is the meaning of nyekrak by saying nyekrak is simply rough, but for anybody who never heard nyekrak, rough sounds puzzle. Regarding gilig, is it similiar with ngelimpa or wuwung?

I often hear pamor "nyekrak" here in Jakarta. We use this word to describe the tipe of pamor which is Rough, looks like foating on the blade surface,and some has sharp edge (in pamor miring) so it can hurt your finger .
I do agree wtih Alan for the tangguh. It's should be a tuban keris.
We can not expect that every keris with pamor miring is a blambangan.
I can say this to you Karttikeya, It's not easy to find a blambangan keris.

Karttikeya · 13th December 2011, 04:38 AM

Hi Ferry, even though Alan said that this keris can be classified as Tuban blade based on photograpgh but he also said that his opinion can be changed easily if he handle the blade, so it sounds possible if the tangguh change from Tuban to Blambangan

. To my eye, low and slanted gandik, probably its skewness, when I refer to another Blambangan blade which is owned by my friend, I can say that this keris looks like it. For me, I am not confused with tangguh matter, since I like it, I will keep it. Anyway, thank you for your information.

10th December 2011, 02:56 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Pamor luluhan is mentioned and described on page 340 of the EK. Best regards

10th December 2011, 03:47 PM	#2
Karttikeya Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 54	Pak Alan, I don't think that nyekrak means bent or bengkok in Bahasa. Actually I do not know what is translation of nyekrak in Bahasa, but I am sure nyekrak does not mean bent. Maybe anybody can help to translate nyekrak in Bahasa or even English is much better. Even if nyekrak means bent or bengkok and referred to your statement that "the thinking is that because the surface rises and falls a lot, that surface is bent." I still cannot imagine that. If you handle this blade then you will know what I mean nyekrak, anyway I believe you already knew it in fact. Or probably you can see the photographs of sor-soran, I think these 2 photos are quite clear which impress high relief surface. Not all pamor miring are nyekrak, but all pamor nyekrak are definitely pamor miring. If we see low and slanted gandik and gilig blade (again, I do not know how to translate gilig in English), I deal with Blambangan blade.

10th December 2011, 03:48 PM	#3
Karttikeya Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 54	Jean, thank you for the informations.

10th December 2011, 04:19 PM	#4
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Nyekrak is rough and gilig is rounded

10th December 2011, 04:41 PM	#5
Karttikeya Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 54	Thank you for your enlightenment, tunggulametung. Yes, nyekrak is something like rough, but only rough does not fit on applying all nyekrak features on the related blade. Word rough is too common to convey basic understanding of nyekrak. Yes, sure you know what is the meaning of nyekrak by saying nyekrak is simply rough, but for anybody who never heard nyekrak, rough sounds puzzle. Regarding gilig, is it similiar with ngelimpa or wuwung?

10th December 2011, 04:53 PM	#6
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	yes

10th December 2011, 09:23 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,994	Thanks Jean. One of my faults:- I don't read the keris books much; I've looked at that entry now, and it is in fact what my understanding was, even though I've not heard the term in keris related discussion. My vocabulary of keris terms depends upon what I have heard used in conversation with people in Jawa, as does my vocab of Indonesian and Javanese. I don't retain things very well from books. With the word "nyekrak", as I've said, I've not heard this word used in a keris related discussion, in fact, I don't know the word. I do know "krak", which is not Indonesian, but Javanese and it means "bent", I've been told that in a different context it can mean "extremely angry". After having read the description of what is meant by "nyekrak" I very strongly suspect that the word is not "nyekrak" at all, but correctly "nyekerak". I'm pretty sure that "kerak" is used in Indonesian as well as Javanese. Pronunciation of both nyekrak and nyekerak would be virtually indistinguishable, only context would provide meaning. The root for nyekerak is kerak, and kerak means "very old and dry", or as it is commonly used "crusty" its what you call the rice crust that sticks to the pan. You would use the same word --- kerak --- for mud that had splashed up onto the side of your car and dried there as a crust. Nyekerak then becomes a perfectly understandable description for the particular quality of a type of pamor :- its rough like rice crust in a pan. Describes it perfectly. As for gilig, it is not rounded, but cylindrical. In Javanese round or spherical is "bunder", gilig is also Javanese and it means cylindrical. Certainly, a segment of a cylinder can be rounded, but gilig does not mean round. I do not know if not gilig is used in Indonesian, but in Indonesian, the Javanese "bunder" becomes "bundar". Root of "ngelimpa" is "limpa" = "spleen". A blade that is ngelimpa has an ovoid cross section, like the spleen. "Wuwung" is "roof", a blade that has a cross section with a sharply defined ada-ada could be said to have a wuwung cross section. I do not think that "gilig", which means "cylindrical" can be taken as a synonym for "spleen-like" or "roof".

13th December 2011, 04:38 AM	#9
Karttikeya Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 54	Hi Ferry, even though Alan said that this keris can be classified as Tuban blade based on photograpgh but he also said that his opinion can be changed easily if he handle the blade, so it sounds possible if the tangguh change from Tuban to Blambangan . To my eye, low and slanted gandik, probably its skewness, when I refer to another Blambangan blade which is owned by my friend, I can say that this keris looks like it. For me, I am not confused with tangguh matter, since I like it, I will keep it. Anyway, thank you for your information.