Wilah from?

Sajen · 9th December 2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley

Thanks Detlef,

Do you know where i can find a picture of a cenangan?

regards,
Ben

I will look for, let me time until tomorrow. But maybe someone more fast as I am?

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 9th December 2011, 11:11 PM

The cenangan form is scarce. I suspect it is a pretty recent form, and a development and simplification of the gerantim form.

The two cenangan in Harley's link are recent, and the only photos I could find of cenangan hilts are also over-blown recent ones.

Essentially, the cenangan is the gerantim without the sprout on top.

Pictured is a gerantim --- with sprout--- and the same hilt with the sprout painted out, which makes it a cenangan.

Ben, this would be an easy hilt for you to use as a model:- reduce the raised parts that I commented on previously, and give them a bit of a curve, and you've just about done the job. The checkering is not necessary, this is the only Bali hilt I've seen that had checkering.

Re the wood:- yes, it is jati gembol.

Harley · 9th December 2011, 11:40 PM

I am glad I'm not the only one that couldn't find it

Yes the gerantim is close to what i have now, and the rest is easy to adjust.
But now I know what it looks like, i have found this picture, is that the cenangan?

A. G. Maisey · 9th December 2011, 11:46 PM

Yes, but modern and not particularly good quality.

Harley · 10th December 2011, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes, but modern and not particularly good quality.

It wouldn't be my choice either, but isn't the gerantim also more common on Lombok?
If not i am going for the gerantim.

Thanks Mr Maisey.

A. G. Maisey · 10th December 2011, 01:19 AM

No, gerantim was not more common on Lombok. In past times it was a hilt normally used by the nobility of Bali, most especially in the form which was wrapped with woven gold.

Ben, you cannot convert your present almost cenangan into a gerantim, because then the proportions will definitely be wrong. If you want to do gerantim you'll need to start again and take account of the sprout on top, however, a gerantim out of plain wood seems to me to just a little unfitting.

You could bind what you have with twine and have a loncengan, but although these are not out of place on Bali, they were more common on Lombok.

Or you can slightly modify what you have a finish up with a pretty acceptable cenangan.

Harley · 10th December 2011, 01:38 AM

I am sorry Mr Maisey, but i meant the gerantim that you adjusted, without the sprout, and there was my mistake, then is was a cenangan

Maybe i start again with a new one, and make the top, middle, en bottom apart,
that way i always can change the proportions, and i think it's nicer with a difference in grain.
But we'll see.

regards,
Ben

9th December 2011, 11:11 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	The cenangan form is scarce. I suspect it is a pretty recent form, and a development and simplification of the gerantim form. The two cenangan in Harley's link are recent, and the only photos I could find of cenangan hilts are also over-blown recent ones. Essentially, the cenangan is the gerantim without the sprout on top. Pictured is a gerantim --- with sprout--- and the same hilt with the sprout painted out, which makes it a cenangan. Ben, this would be an easy hilt for you to use as a model:- reduce the raised parts that I commented on previously, and give them a bit of a curve, and you've just about done the job. The checkering is not necessary, this is the only Bali hilt I've seen that had checkering. Re the wood:- yes, it is jati gembol. Attached Images

9th December 2011, 11:40 PM	#3
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	I am glad I'm not the only one that couldn't find it Yes the gerantim is close to what i have now, and the rest is easy to adjust. But now I know what it looks like, i have found this picture, is that the cenangan? Attached Images

9th December 2011, 11:46 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Yes, but modern and not particularly good quality.

10th December 2011, 01:19 AM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	No, gerantim was not more common on Lombok. In past times it was a hilt normally used by the nobility of Bali, most especially in the form which was wrapped with woven gold. Ben, you cannot convert your present almost cenangan into a gerantim, because then the proportions will definitely be wrong. If you want to do gerantim you'll need to start again and take account of the sprout on top, however, a gerantim out of plain wood seems to me to just a little unfitting. You could bind what you have with twine and have a loncengan, but although these are not out of place on Bali, they were more common on Lombok. Or you can slightly modify what you have a finish up with a pretty acceptable cenangan.

10th December 2011, 01:38 AM	#7
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	I am sorry Mr Maisey, but i meant the gerantim that you adjusted, without the sprout, and there was my mistake, then is was a cenangan Maybe i start again with a new one, and make the top, middle, en bottom apart, that way i always can change the proportions, and i think it's nicer with a difference in grain. But we'll see. regards, Ben