Wilah from?

David · 2nd December 2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

We could hypothesise about the origins of this scabbard and hilt all day, but my personal opinion is that it was made in Bali, by a carver of no particular talent, however, from what I can see of the pendok, this does not look like Balinese workmanship, nor design. I think the pendok is a later addition.

I know how much you hate guessing games, but would it make sense that this keris may have ended up on a different island given the style of the pendok (whether well made or not) that was added. It just seems so out of place for a Bali keris. I find it hard to believe that a native Balinese would have this added to his keris even if it was to be done on the cheap. I can accept that a sheath might be this poorly conceived by a native Balinese but the pendok seems such a mysterious addition throwing the entire ensemble off for me.

Harley · 2nd December 2011, 10:26 PM

David,

I can image n that probably something like you said, has happened with this keris.
It could be that someone bought the keris from Bali, and was living in another area, there the keris has fallen or somehow broke, and they repaired it with
everything they could lay there hands on.
And years later we trying to resolve the mystery

regards,
Ben

A. G. Maisey · 2nd December 2011, 10:41 PM

Yes David, certainly, its as I said:- a later addition.

There is nothing about the pendok that looks like Bali or that looks original to this scabbard, for me. My guess is that it was most probably done in Jakarta to make the keris salable.

Harley, if I were to redress this keris I'd be looking at a gayaman wrongko, I would not give it a pendok, and since you undoubtedly do not have a set of segrek to cut the inside of the gandar so there is no joint, I'd be making the gandar in two pieces and glueing down the sides with two part epoxy adhesive, not wood working glue, because woodworking glue can generate rust.

Working out of the Indonesian environment, a pale, plain grained soft wood would be the best choice, and then stain to imitate pelet--- the Balinese and Javanese used to do it, and still do it, why shouldn't you?

Harley · 2nd December 2011, 11:06 PM

Thanks Mr Maisey,

Then that is what i am going to try, i have done the gandar a couple of times,
but like you said i have not the tools to make it in one piece.
I have some plain Indonesian wood that i use for making the sheath, but for the pelet i really must do some practice, i tried one time before, without looking for an example, with as result a ugly kendit

I just realized that i only have a Balinese patrem keris, can someone tell me
what the measurement of the width for a gayaman is?, the rest i can work out.

regards,
Ben

A. G. Maisey · 3rd December 2011, 01:53 AM

I would not call that kendit ugly, its well within the parameters of a natural kendit.

Bali gayams vary a bit in size, they're not as disciplined as Solo and Jogja gayams.

I've just picked up the closest one and its measurements are 185mm long, depth at center point is 57mm, thickness at widest point on top is 26mm, the entire wrongko is 584mm from top of the atasan to the tip of the gandar. Proportion wise it looks a bit too long in the gandar for the size of the atasan.

Jean · 3rd December 2011, 09:32 AM

Hello Ben,
Is the peksi of the blade original and intact? From your 3rd picture it seems as if it was possibly cut and rewelded about 1 cm from the base but it may be just an impression.
Best regards
Jean

David · 3rd December 2011, 11:06 AM

Jean, i think you might just be seeing remnants of the cloth wrapping.

2nd December 2011, 11:06 PM	#4
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	Thanks Mr Maisey, Then that is what i am going to try, i have done the gandar a couple of times, but like you said i have not the tools to make it in one piece. I have some plain Indonesian wood that i use for making the sheath, but for the pelet i really must do some practice, i tried one time before, without looking for an example, with as result a ugly kendit I just realized that i only have a Balinese patrem keris, can someone tell me what the measurement of the width for a gayaman is?, the rest i can work out. regards, Ben Attached Images Last edited by Harley; 3rd December 2011 at 12:10 AM.

2nd December 2011, 10:26 PM	#2
Harley Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Nederland Posts: 83	David, I can image n that probably something like you said, has happened with this keris. It could be that someone bought the keris from Bali, and was living in another area, there the keris has fallen or somehow broke, and they repaired it with everything they could lay there hands on. And years later we trying to resolve the mystery regards, Ben

2nd December 2011, 10:41 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Yes David, certainly, its as I said:- a later addition. There is nothing about the pendok that looks like Bali or that looks original to this scabbard, for me. My guess is that it was most probably done in Jakarta to make the keris salable. Harley, if I were to redress this keris I'd be looking at a gayaman wrongko, I would not give it a pendok, and since you undoubtedly do not have a set of segrek to cut the inside of the gandar so there is no joint, I'd be making the gandar in two pieces and glueing down the sides with two part epoxy adhesive, not wood working glue, because woodworking glue can generate rust. Working out of the Indonesian environment, a pale, plain grained soft wood would be the best choice, and then stain to imitate pelet--- the Balinese and Javanese used to do it, and still do it, why shouldn't you?

3rd December 2011, 01:53 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	I would not call that kendit ugly, its well within the parameters of a natural kendit. Bali gayams vary a bit in size, they're not as disciplined as Solo and Jogja gayams. I've just picked up the closest one and its measurements are 185mm long, depth at center point is 57mm, thickness at widest point on top is 26mm, the entire wrongko is 584mm from top of the atasan to the tip of the gandar. Proportion wise it looks a bit too long in the gandar for the size of the atasan.

3rd December 2011, 09:32 AM	#6
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Ben, Is the peksi of the blade original and intact? From your 3rd picture it seems as if it was possibly cut and rewelded about 1 cm from the base but it may be just an impression. Best regards Jean

3rd December 2011, 11:06 AM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,228	Jean, i think you might just be seeing remnants of the cloth wrapping.