Jambiya for Identification

Dom · 17th November 2011, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan S.

which reminds me of North African Jambiyas.

nothing to do with "North Africa" ... it's well, "Indian"
I agreed when "Lew" wrote, that it's a bazaar article

but, if it's pleasing you, that's the essential

à +

Dom

Atlantia · 17th November 2011, 11:50 PM

these date to the 1970s/80s and were retailed along with the 'lion head' Kukris and other types of knives and swords, most with either this type of hilt of hilts of black buffalo horn.
Large hybrid knives with blades that look like a pesh-kabz crossed with a bowie, even 'Sinbad' type swords with broad squared off ends and I particularly remember a strange sword with a blade shaped like a fish (same plating and dot designs to emulate scales and features).

A shop near here seemed to sell the whole range in about 1978-80, so I remember them vividly as a youngster with an eye for exotic knives.

If you look hard enough there are even variants of the lion head Kukri with this type of handle, although they are less common compared to the familiar lion head ones.
They were made in India, produced in large numbers and exported widely.
The dot pattern designs on the nickel plated blade are a bit of a theme on this particular range, They were often sold alongside those black scabbard Sabres with 'India' etched into the blades.

They may have been available in India to those who travel, they were certainly available in the Uk, although for every one of the less common types there seem to have been about a hundred lion-kukris sold in various sizes. So surviving examples of types such as this are not common anymore.
I've seen two of three like this one in the last few years while I've seen over a hundred of the lion-head kukris and prehaps 4 or 5 of the kukri with this type of plated carved/painted hilt in the same time period.

I've never seen one of the fish swords again after that shop stopped selling them so presumably not a big seller!

Jim McDougall · 17th November 2011, 11:58 PM

OK guys

so Im a romantic !!

It sounded like a good story, maybe I could write movies.

I still say Stan I like your style !!!

Best,
Jim

Stan S. · 18th November 2011, 01:54 AM

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the input but I can not help it to be angry at myself and question my ability to tell genuine indo persian weapons from fakes. I thought that I was pretty good at it but alas

At least I am smart enough to stay away from all India-engraved blades, lionhead kukries, modern mechanical damascus replicas and the like.

Interestingly enough my 2 newest aquisitions (that turned out to be tourist pieces) are said to be made in the 70s-80s. Perhaps the reason I am so easily fooled is because the 80s found me in my pre- and early teens, which is well before I developed interest in collecting and did not have access to the sources that would help me educate myself. Oh well, live and learn...

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 18th November 2011, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan S.

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the input but I can not help it to be angry at myself and question my ability to tell genuine indo persian weapons from fakes. I thought that I was pretty good at it but alas

At least I am smart enough to stay away from all India-engraved blades, lionhead kukries, modern mechanical damascus replicas and the like.

Interestingly enough my 2 newest aquisitions (that turned out to be tourist pieces) are said to be made in the 70s-80s. Perhaps the reason I am so easily fooled is because the 80s found me in my pre- and early teens, which is well before I developed interest in collecting and did not have access to the sources that would help me educate myself. Oh well, live and learn...

Salaams Stan~ Ok so the dagger isn't from the Ark but it doesn't matter... the great thing is you got stuck in and had a good look at it and it does have some nice interesting markings which are difficult even for people who know to get their heads round... I sat and watched a superb craftsman make a new dagger in the same region and it looked every inch like 200 years old. While we all try to avoid fakes they are even in their own right part of the story; after all, how many swords do we encounter with fake stamps? In Afghanistan and surrounding areas they still knock out almost passable Martini Henrys and Lee Enfields. I bet this forum could field quite a few fakes into a rogues gallery !

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Dom · 18th November 2011, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

even for people who know to get their heads round... I sat and watched a

Salam Aleikum
Ibrahiim you are fully right ... I have been caught ... and I will be ... again

now, I refuse to buy when pictures are too dark, and the seller make difficulties,
to provide good pic's, and i'm laughing when I saw some offers ...
no shame to have been screwed, that's arrived to the best expert

à +

Dom

Jim McDougall · 18th November 2011, 07:30 PM

Stan, dont feel too badly...trust me, everybody here has been through thier own stings!!! The main thing is you learn, and I would like to thank you for being a great sport in sharing the experience. It takes a considerable courage to openly share such fragile and delicate matters here, as can be seen by the huge volume who post as opposed to those who simply view. Most fear they will look silly or be criticized, but as you have shown, that is not the case.

Nicely done Stan,
All the best,
Jim

17th November 2011, 11:50 PM	#2
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	these date to the 1970s/80s and were retailed along with the 'lion head' Kukris and other types of knives and swords, most with either this type of hilt of hilts of black buffalo horn. Large hybrid knives with blades that look like a pesh-kabz crossed with a bowie, even 'Sinbad' type swords with broad squared off ends and I particularly remember a strange sword with a blade shaped like a fish (same plating and dot designs to emulate scales and features). A shop near here seemed to sell the whole range in about 1978-80, so I remember them vividly as a youngster with an eye for exotic knives. If you look hard enough there are even variants of the lion head Kukri with this type of handle, although they are less common compared to the familiar lion head ones. They were made in India, produced in large numbers and exported widely. The dot pattern designs on the nickel plated blade are a bit of a theme on this particular range, They were often sold alongside those black scabbard Sabres with 'India' etched into the blades. They may have been available in India to those who travel, they were certainly available in the Uk, although for every one of the less common types there seem to have been about a hundred lion-kukris sold in various sizes. So surviving examples of types such as this are not common anymore. I've seen two of three like this one in the last few years while I've seen over a hundred of the lion-head kukris and prehaps 4 or 5 of the kukri with this type of plated carved/painted hilt in the same time period. I've never seen one of the fish swords again after that shop stopped selling them so presumably not a big seller! Last edited by Atlantia; 18th November 2011 at 12:00 AM.

18th November 2011, 01:54 AM	#4
Stan S. Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA Posts: 227	Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the input but I can not help it to be angry at myself and question my ability to tell genuine indo persian weapons from fakes. I thought that I was pretty good at it but alas At least I am smart enough to stay away from all India-engraved blades, lionhead kukries, modern mechanical damascus replicas and the like. Interestingly enough my 2 newest aquisitions (that turned out to be tourist pieces) are said to be made in the 70s-80s. Perhaps the reason I am so easily fooled is because the 80s found me in my pre- and early teens, which is well before I developed interest in collecting and did not have access to the sources that would help me educate myself. Oh well, live and learn... Last edited by Stan S.; 18th November 2011 at 01:49 PM.

17th November 2011, 11:58 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,477	OK guys so Im a romantic !! It sounded like a good story, maybe I could write movies. I still say Stan I like your style !!! Best, Jim

18th November 2011, 07:30 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,477	Stan, dont feel too badly...trust me, everybody here has been through thier own stings!!! The main thing is you learn, and I would like to thank you for being a great sport in sharing the experience. It takes a considerable courage to openly share such fragile and delicate matters here, as can be seen by the huge volume who post as opposed to those who simply view. Most fear they will look silly or be criticized, but as you have shown, that is not the case. Nicely done Stan, All the best, Jim