Insights of German Wheellock Mechanisms

Matchlock · 12th November 2011, 06:05 PM

Hi Richard,

It's been so good to hear from you again!

As to internal engravings on wheellocks, usually only the better quality locks - which were mostly used with sporting or hunting guns and rifles - have decorated internal mechanisms. However, from ca. 1650 to the end of the wheellock era in the late 18th c., such hidden decoration can be found relatively frequently, as all regular military use of wheellocks stopped by the end of the 17th c.

Best wishes, my friend,
Michael

rickystl · 12th November 2011, 07:15 PM

Hi Michael. While at a local gun show last week, I met a collector/dealer that purchased a beautiful German/Selician (spelling?) Wheelock sporting rifle. It has eight groove rifled barrel and an EXTERNAL main spring. He would not let me take pictures of it at the Show, but I did receive an email from him saying he will take pictures and send them to me. So, I should receive them sometime next week. He's owned it for only three months, but might be willing to sell it next year since it's not in his normal interest of collecting. I would really like your opinion on the gun. So, I'll Post it soon for comment. Rick.

Pukka Bundook · 12th November 2011, 07:38 PM

Michael,

Thank you for the explanation re. engraving on lock internals.
It is good to be here again and talking to you!

Rick,
Silesian might not be far from the mark, we will see when you have photos, but it sounds like Maybe a Tzchinke...(Cannot think how it is spelled!)

Generally fairly small claibere, with distinctive stock shape,...Eastern Germanic/Czech. ....May be way off, but more often than not such pieces have external mainsprings.

Matchlock · 13th November 2011, 01:53 AM

Richard and Rick,

The item we're anxious to see is most certainly a Polish (Silesian) Tschinke (the historic spelling) of mid-17th c. date. Let's hope it's o.k. in all its parts.

Best,
Michael

rickystl · 14th November 2011, 09:38 PM

Richard and Michael

Thanks for your comments. The owner did have a small index card describing what he believed the gun to be. It did in fact say Tzchinke/Silesian on the I.D. card, but I can't remember the rest. But I seem to recall he had a date of 1575-1600 on the information. I'm not an expert on Wheellock guns. But I believe these dates would be too early for a Tzchinke? It does not look like other Tzchinke rifles I've seen. But, again, I anxiously await photos. It will be a week's time tomorrow since his email. If I don't hear from him in a couple more days, I'll contact him again.

Of course, a better idea would be for him (since he is local) to bring the gun to me and let me take the photos, since I know what we all want to see, and can re-size photos, etc. Then I'll recommend that he leave the gun with me for a while - about six months - for furthur evaluation. LOL

Rick.

Pukka Bundook · 15th November 2011, 02:09 PM

Rick,

If it doesn't look like other Tschinke's you have seen, then it will be very interesting to see the photos!
Do you recall how it differs?

Leave it with you for six months?!...........Six Years would give you a better time for evaluation! :-)

Matchlock · 15th November 2011, 03:41 PM

Oh no, Richard,

Once we have seen the photos, I'm quite sure we will soon know what it is. I don't thik it will take us six years ...

Best,
Michael

12th November 2011, 06:05 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Richard, It's been so good to hear from you again! As to internal engravings on wheellocks, usually only the better quality locks - which were mostly used with sporting or hunting guns and rifles - have decorated internal mechanisms. However, from ca. 1650 to the end of the wheellock era in the late 18th c., such hidden decoration can be found relatively frequently, as all regular military use of wheellocks stopped by the end of the 17th c. Best wishes, my friend, Michael

12th November 2011, 07:15 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hi Michael. While at a local gun show last week, I met a collector/dealer that purchased a beautiful German/Selician (spelling?) Wheelock sporting rifle. It has eight groove rifled barrel and an EXTERNAL main spring. He would not let me take pictures of it at the Show, but I did receive an email from him saying he will take pictures and send them to me. So, I should receive them sometime next week. He's owned it for only three months, but might be willing to sell it next year since it's not in his normal interest of collecting. I would really like your opinion on the gun. So, I'll Post it soon for comment. Rick.

12th November 2011, 07:38 PM	#3
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Michael, Thank you for the explanation re. engraving on lock internals. It is good to be here again and talking to you! Rick, Silesian might not be far from the mark, we will see when you have photos, but it sounds like Maybe a Tzchinke...(Cannot think how it is spelled!) Generally fairly small claibere, with distinctive stock shape,...Eastern Germanic/Czech. ....May be way off, but more often than not such pieces have external mainsprings.

13th November 2011, 01:53 AM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Richard and Rick, The item we're anxious to see is most certainly a Polish (Silesian) Tschinke (the historic spelling) of mid-17th c. date. Let's hope it's o.k. in all its parts. Best, Michael

14th November 2011, 09:38 PM	#5
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Richard and Michael Thanks for your comments. The owner did have a small index card describing what he believed the gun to be. It did in fact say Tzchinke/Silesian on the I.D. card, but I can't remember the rest. But I seem to recall he had a date of 1575-1600 on the information. I'm not an expert on Wheellock guns. But I believe these dates would be too early for a Tzchinke? It does not look like other Tzchinke rifles I've seen. But, again, I anxiously await photos. It will be a week's time tomorrow since his email. If I don't hear from him in a couple more days, I'll contact him again. Of course, a better idea would be for him (since he is local) to bring the gun to me and let me take the photos, since I know what we all want to see, and can re-size photos, etc. Then I'll recommend that he leave the gun with me for a while - about six months - for furthur evaluation. LOL Rick.

15th November 2011, 02:09 PM	#6
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Rick, If it doesn't look like other Tschinke's you have seen, then it will be very interesting to see the photos! Do you recall how it differs? Leave it with you for six months?!...........Six Years would give you a better time for evaluation! :-)

15th November 2011, 03:41 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Oh no, Richard, Once we have seen the photos, I'm quite sure we will soon know what it is. I don't thik it will take us six years ... Best, Michael