Maghrebi (?) Saif for Comment

kahnjar1 · 26th September 2011, 04:51 AM

Certainly has that North African look about it. As to age I can not comment. Interesting piece.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14143
Check this thread particularly pics on post #39. Remarkably similar style.
Stu

Gavin Nugent · 26th September 2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

Certainly has that North African look about it. As to age I can not comment. Interesting piece.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14143
Check this thread particularly pics on post #39. Remarkably similar style.
Stu

I agree with Jim's assessment in post #43 that it is likely a Bedouin sabre.

I think Broadaxe will be able to have the final word on this as he has a fine collection of Bedouin sabres.

The example you show looks to have a very fine old blade on it.

Perhaps a short PM or email to Broadaxe would be beneficial.

Gav

TVV · 26th September 2011, 06:53 AM

Thank you Gentlemen,
The example in the other thread is exactly of the same hilt style.
Bedouin is certainly a possibility. The Sinai/Palestine examples (as identified by Artzi) tend to be characterized by a lack of a knuckle guard. However, I do not know enough about them, and there may be variations.
I have sent a PM to broadaxe, hopefully he will chime in.
Regards,
Teodor

broadaxe · 26th September 2011, 08:45 AM

What an interesting saber with a strong Badawi flavor. First let's look at the blade: geometrical profile appears to be European military saber of the late 19th century but the presence of gurdas suggest it was made primely for the trade market. The steel looks pattern welded! Rare but not out of the equation. Second, the hilt is a hybrid of North-African influence with degraded Nimcha-style guard and the grips are pure Bedouin technique, twin (horn?) slabs with simple rivets and reinforcing brass bands. I believe this is a kind of premium Sinai Bedouin saber put together, because of the high quality blade, the horn grips have unusual fine cannelures and the d-guard engraved with typical criss-cross pattern that can be seen on axe heads, war hammers, billhooks and even fire-steels from the region of Sinai and parts of Israel (I think also in Jordan).

A.alnakkas · 26th September 2011, 01:07 PM

Hmmm there is a similar one in Tirri's book, he clasified it as Algerian Nimcha.

Gavin Nugent · 26th September 2011, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Tirri's book

Nuff said ;-)

Gav

A.alnakkas · 26th September 2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Nuff said ;-)

Gav

Hah, explain it on an email mate :-P

Billman · 27th September 2011, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadaxe

I believe this is a kind of premium Sinai Bedouin saber put together, because of the high quality blade, the horn grips have unusual fine cannelures and the d-guard engraved with typical criss-cross pattern that can be seen on axe heads, war hammers, billhooks and even fire-steels from the region of Sinai and parts of Israel (I think also in Jordan).

If anyone has images of the billhooks from this region I would be most grateful to receive copies via PM or website billhooks.co.uk as I have nothing at all from the eastern Mediterranean, except one modern Turkish tool and an image of an Isaeli one from eBay... Thanks in anticipation...

Billman · 27th September 2011, 10:33 AM

Not heard the word "gurda" used to describe the mark on the blade so did a quick web search and found this site:

(site deleted)

Probably already well known to all you weapons buffs, buy just in case it is new - some similar gurda marks on the blades they are selling...

broadaxe · 27th September 2011, 03:13 PM

I believe this pattern welded blade was made and meant to be shown as-is, on purpose. While it might be Caucasian, I strongly believe it is German or Magyar, because of its shape. One of my Bedouin sabers has a caucasian blade (a lot of gurdas all the way...), possibly Khevsurian and it is almost dead straight, looking like an extra-long butcher knife. Another saber has a d-guard, but it is rather simple piece of bent metal. Billman, you can start a thread on billhooks if you like and post the photos you have, I'll throw in some of mine.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 27th September 2011, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billman

Not heard the word "gurda" used to describe the mark on the blade so did a quick web search and found this site:

(Site deleted)

Probably already well known to all you weapons buffs, buy just in case it is new - some similar gurda marks on the blades they are selling...

Salaams ... That is a nice website and they have some great publications for sale ... Theres a few swords with Gurda marks too... on Palash Khevsur swords. I hope that one day we can have a full on weapons book library on the forum.
Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi

26th September 2011, 04:51 AM	#1
kahnjar1 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: CHRISTCHURCH NEW ZEALAND Posts: 2,802	Certainly has that North African look about it. As to age I can not comment. Interesting piece. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=14143 Check this thread particularly pics on post #39. Remarkably similar style. Stu Last edited by kahnjar1; 26th September 2011 at 05:01 AM.

27th September 2011, 10:33 AM	#9
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Not heard the word "gurda" used to describe the mark on the blade so did a quick web search and found this site: (site deleted) Probably already well known to all you weapons buffs, buy just in case it is new - some similar gurda marks on the blades they are selling... Last edited by David; 27th September 2011 at 11:42 PM.

26th September 2011, 06:53 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,669	Thank you Gentlemen, The example in the other thread is exactly of the same hilt style. Bedouin is certainly a possibility. The Sinai/Palestine examples (as identified by Artzi) tend to be characterized by a lack of a knuckle guard. However, I do not know enough about them, and there may be variations. I have sent a PM to broadaxe, hopefully he will chime in. Regards, Teodor

26th September 2011, 08:45 AM	#4
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	What an interesting saber with a strong Badawi flavor. First let's look at the blade: geometrical profile appears to be European military saber of the late 19th century but the presence of gurdas suggest it was made primely for the trade market. The steel looks pattern welded! Rare but not out of the equation. Second, the hilt is a hybrid of North-African influence with degraded Nimcha-style guard and the grips are pure Bedouin technique, twin (horn?) slabs with simple rivets and reinforcing brass bands. I believe this is a kind of premium Sinai Bedouin saber put together, because of the high quality blade, the horn grips have unusual fine cannelures and the d-guard engraved with typical criss-cross pattern that can be seen on axe heads, war hammers, billhooks and even fire-steels from the region of Sinai and parts of Israel (I think also in Jordan).

26th September 2011, 01:07 PM	#5
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Hmmm there is a similar one in Tirri's book, he clasified it as Algerian Nimcha.

27th September 2011, 03:13 PM	#10
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	I believe this pattern welded blade was made and meant to be shown as-is, on purpose. While it might be Caucasian, I strongly believe it is German or Magyar, because of its shape. One of my Bedouin sabers has a caucasian blade (a lot of gurdas all the way...), possibly Khevsurian and it is almost dead straight, looking like an extra-long butcher knife. Another saber has a d-guard, but it is rather simple piece of bent metal. Billman, you can start a thread on billhooks if you like and post the photos you have, I'll throw in some of mine.