2 swords for ID please.

[Hotspur]

Hi David,

The finial/knob/capstan routine is most often not a nut. We see these on a great many types of swords. However, one reason they were used in cutlery is to add a little relief of other parts. Attached is a prime example why there is a peen block added to a lot of assemblies. Some of them a bit over the edgewith the extreme nature of such a simple fixture.

Cheers

GC

Ps

Jim, we are all lifetime scholars of the swords and while I regard a great many periods as relevant, seem to have settled with study specifically looking at the federal period in the U.S. use, manufacture and import. The internet has opened a great deal and I will always admire the depth of research by yourself and others before the advents we see now. Narrowing further to just eagles, I currently have over 5,000 files of hundreds of variations just of those hilts. I am in no way an expert in any aspect of them but am raking up leaves in the shadows of such as Medicus, Lattimer and their own specialists such as Peterson, Neumann, Mowbray, et al. One book builds on another with more appearing all the time. I am more just an inventory accountant looking in the different bins for matches.

[katana]

Hi Glen,
thanks for the reply ...here is a better picture of the pommel. To me it looks like a nut but the tang could have been peened over the finial (after passing through it) and due to the fact they are both steel could, with the effect of age/rust etc become almost invisible ?

Another picture provided by Marc on SFI ....unfortunately no details other than the sword was sold via "Le Hussard"

Best Regards David

[katana]

Trying to find the significance of the 5 balled knuckleguard .....I found on Wiki ( ) that this design feature ...." popularity lasted from 1790 to until about 1820 when it was no longer produced " If true it helps date this sword.
I also read that this ball feature is more common on Infantry swords.........stylised musket balls ??

Kind Regards David

[Hotspur]

Originally Posted by katana

Trying to find the significance of the 5 balled knuckleguard .....I found on Wiki ( ) that this design feature ...." popularity lasted from 1790 to until about 1820 when it was no longer produced " If true it helps date this sword.
I also read that this ball feature is more common on Infantry swords.........stylised musket balls ??

Kind Regards David

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10330

I prefer beaded as a terminology and more apt for a lot of hilts. It might make more sense to continue that old thread than add it to this one but here are some more cause to pause. They are not just found on infantry swords but the spadroons probably most recognized. Artillery, naval examples as well. I have pretty much summed up my thoughts there but would point out that Wiki articles are really no more than a start and much more information can be found in dealer listings as well as books.

Musket balls you say A hilt that has just two and one with more of the stylings. The other French sabre I posted is also beaded, imo.

Someone that could produce the first use of the term five ball might warrant a
meritorious certificate of rightness

Cheers

GC

[katana]

Thanks Glen,
my knowledge in these types of sword is, shall we say, limited I suppose musket/cannon ball symbolism is possibly unlikely ..but possible....I cannot find any reference to a definitive explaination for the 'beaded' design ....or why there tend to be 5 (3 & 7 much less so, but interestingly all 'odd' numbers, whether or not that is significant ... I do not know )

Kind Regards David

[Hotspur]

How odd ?8^)~ There are just two in the one I posted above.

[katana]

Hi Glen,
Sorry for the late reply.
My main area of collecting is ethnographic ....where decorative elements are often symbolic or talismatic. These decorative features often aid dating, origins etc and subtle differences can equate to a difference of many years or origins a thousand mile apart.

The hilt with the 'disc' shaped sections of the knucklebow and the other with the elongated 'bead' with a ball at either end, which you mentioned are not even subtly different to the usual 5 'balled' or 'beaded' decoration that I am refering to.....so agreed 'odd'.

My question was about the decorative (or symbolic) grouped 'beaded' design, usually 5 in a row .....either with beads of equal size or those which graduate in size ie smaller at the ends, increasing in size to the middle. This design seems to have travelled to a number of countries....some of which were enemies. To my mind this suggests some symbolic, talismatic or religious meaning.

Kind Regards David