New keris

Alam Shah · 23rd July 2005, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

According to my (humble) opinion the dapur is 'Tilam Upih'. I was told it was dapur Jalak Dinding. So this is my first question, who can tell me the difference ? I think these two dapur are very similar.

My second question is concerning the pamor. I know this is a difficult item, but nevertheless. Could this be pamor 'Ganggeng Kanyut' or does anyone recognize it as another pamor ?

Dapur Jalak Dinding have a gusen, pejeten and tingil. This keris does not have a tingil, but it does have a gusen and ada-ada. Therefore, it is not Dapur Jalak Dinding.

Dapur Tilam Upih does not have a gusen. Therefore, it is not Dapur Tilam Upih.

From the features of the keris, it should be Dapur Jalak Ruwuh. It have a pejetan, gusen and ada-ada. Jalak Ruwuh looks similar to Tilam Upih or Brojol except that the blade is thicker in the centre.

The pamor does looks like Ganggeng Kanyut. It is said that this pamor pattern can enhance the owner's popularity, easily making friends.

Hope that answers your questions.

Rick · 24th July 2005, 05:24 PM

Hi Freddy ,
I'm a fan of new keris also .
Some of the work coming out of Madura these days is quite good .
Also when I purchase a new example I know what I'm buying and it's not "the story" or some contemporary piece artificially mangled to look old .

Alam Shah · 24th July 2005, 05:46 PM

Hi Rick,
Nice Pamor Uler Lulut you have there.

But the hilt is unique. I haven't seen this type of hilt before.
Any idea what type of hilt is it?

Freddy · 24th July 2005, 05:35 PM

Thanks for your help.

I looked it up in the 'Ensiklopedi Keris' and you're quite right. I thought it was 'Tilam Upih' because it lacked the 'tinggil'.

But perhaps you could help with the explanation of 'gusen'. I tried to translate the text concerning this dapur in the above mentioned book , but it's not easy. I (am beginning to) have an understanding of Bahasa Indonesia and can translate some of the written text with the help of my dictionnairies, but everything is not always clear to me.

Am I right in stating that the 'gusen' is the narrow border running alongside the edge of the blade ?

Alam Shah · 24th July 2005, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

Thanks for your help.

Am I right in stating that the 'gusen' is the narrow border running alongside the edge of the blade ?

Yes, you're right.

Freddy · 24th July 2005, 05:50 PM

Nice keris, Rick. Mine also comes from Madura, according to the info I received from the seller.

What's the pamor ? And can we have a close-up of the handle. Looks intresting to me.

But I also like the older ones. I don't mind if the blade is not 100 %. That's part of their beauty.

Here's a nice example :

Dapur Carita Luk sebelas ?

Alam Shah · 24th July 2005, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy

Nice keris, Rick. Mine also comes from Madura, according to the info I received from the seller.
But I also like the older ones. I don't mind if the blade is not 100 %. That's part of their beauty. Dapur Carita Luk sebelas ?

...Or what's left of it. It had seen better days.
It takes a lot of ... to appreciate a piece like that.
Well, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder...

Alam Shah · 24th July 2005, 06:10 PM

I have a madura piece too. Click here to have a look.
Estimated to be around late 20th century. Simple piece.

Rick · 24th July 2005, 08:15 PM

Very nice example Alam Shah !
Beautiful!

Pamor Uler Lulut , the beautiful worm .

The ukiran is a rare form but it is traditional to Jawa and was a type favored by a legendary folk hero IIRC . The style is called Imam Bonjol .
I believe you can see an example of this ukiran in the Mangkunegaraan Musium collection in Solo . Also , if you notice the wrongko is faceted rather than the usual smooth curved sides .

John · 25th July 2005, 04:59 AM

Although not quite a fan of new kerises (blades) collectionwise, I immensely enjoy seeing some of the beautiful craftsmanship/aesthetics of the new works.

I thought the "shades" of the uler lulut pamor of Rick's blade skillfully executed giving the 3 dimensional look and I guess more profoundly so at certain angles.

All beautiful pieces in their own right. However Freddy's blade appears to have an overwhelming spread of black stain on it's surface (or is it the photos?). I've had some new Madurese pieces like this stained by black motor oil which may not be the case here.

Alam Shah · 25th July 2005, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The ukiran is a rare form but it is traditional to Jawa and was a type favored by a legendary folk hero IIRC . The style is called Imam Bonjol .
I believe you can see an example of this ukiran in the Mangkunegaraan Musium collection in Solo . Also , if you notice the wrongko is faceted rather than the usual smooth curved sides .

Ah! now i remember where I've seen it.
From the picture of Ali Basah Sentot Prawiradirja, one of the leading warrior of Pageran Diponegoro. He was wearing a keris whose hulu and warangka is similar to yours.

The ukiran is built up of 5 balls. Pageran Diponegoro, son of Hamengko Buwono the third, has been depicted on several engravings carrying a keris with a hilt resembling yours.

24th July 2005, 05:24 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	New Keris Hi Freddy , I'm a fan of new keris also . Some of the work coming out of Madura these days is quite good . Also when I purchase a new example I know what I'm buying and it's not "the story" or some contemporary piece artificially mangled to look old . Attached Images

24th July 2005, 05:46 PM	#3
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hi Rick, Nice Pamor Uler Lulut you have there. But the hilt is unique. I haven't seen this type of hilt before. Any idea what type of hilt is it? Last edited by Alam Shah; 24th July 2005 at 05:51 PM. Reason: add question...

24th July 2005, 05:35 PM	#4
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Thanks Thanks for your help. I looked it up in the 'Ensiklopedi Keris' and you're quite right. I thought it was 'Tilam Upih' because it lacked the 'tinggil'. But perhaps you could help with the explanation of 'gusen'. I tried to translate the text concerning this dapur in the above mentioned book , but it's not easy. I (am beginning to) have an understanding of Bahasa Indonesia and can translate some of the written text with the help of my dictionnairies, but everything is not always clear to me. Am I right in stating that the 'gusen' is the narrow border running alongside the edge of the blade ?

24th July 2005, 05:50 PM	#6
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	nice Nice keris, Rick. Mine also comes from Madura, according to the info I received from the seller. What's the pamor ? And can we have a close-up of the handle. Looks intresting to me. But I also like the older ones. I don't mind if the blade is not 100 %. That's part of their beauty. Here's a nice example : Dapur Carita Luk sebelas ?

24th July 2005, 06:10 PM	#8
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	My Maduran piece. I have a madura piece too. Click here to have a look. Estimated to be around late 20th century. Simple piece.

24th July 2005, 08:15 PM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Very nice example Alam Shah ! Beautiful! Pamor Uler Lulut , the beautiful worm . The ukiran is a rare form but it is traditional to Jawa and was a type favored by a legendary folk hero IIRC . The style is called Imam Bonjol . I believe you can see an example of this ukiran in the Mangkunegaraan Musium collection in Solo . Also , if you notice the wrongko is faceted rather than the usual smooth curved sides . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 25th July 2005 at 02:11 AM. Reason: More info added

25th July 2005, 04:59 AM	#10
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Although not quite a fan of new kerises (blades) collectionwise, I immensely enjoy seeing some of the beautiful craftsmanship/aesthetics of the new works. I thought the "shades" of the uler lulut pamor of Rick's blade skillfully executed giving the 3 dimensional look and I guess more profoundly so at certain angles. All beautiful pieces in their own right. However Freddy's blade appears to have an overwhelming spread of black stain on it's surface (or is it the photos?). I've had some new Madurese pieces like this stained by black motor oil which may not be the case here.