Holy Grail

Gavin Nugent · 27th July 2011, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

For Moro weapons, most would want a junggayan barong and kris, both with ivory and gold, and even rarer would be an ivory kampilan with gold (mine is ivory but no gold).

All very nice but you forgot the addition of twistcore

Battara · 27th July 2011, 03:54 PM

OH yeah, good point (like the one on top of my head

)!

VANDOO · 28th July 2011, 02:39 AM

I SUPPOSE THE KAMPILLIAN USED BY LAPU LAPU TO KILL MAGELLAN,

WITH GOOD AUTHENTIC PROVENANCE ALONG WITH OTHER TROPHYS FROM THE VICTORY BOUGHT FROM THE DESENDENTS OF LAPU LAPU WOULD BE A HOLY GRAIL OF SORTS.
HIGH END EXAMPLES FROM CATOS BOOK WOULD ALSO QUALIFY.

AUTHENTIC PROVENANCE IS MORE RARE THAN THE WEAPONS WE COLLECT SO ANY WEAPON WITH INFO AND THE MORE ACURATE INFO THERE IS THE BETTER.
QUALITY, PRICE, MATERIALS USED TO MAKE IT ,IF IT CAN BE ASSIGNED TO A FAMOUS MAKER OF WEAPONS OR TO A PERSON OF NOTE SUCH AS ROYALTY ALL PLAY A PART

ON A INDIVIDUAL LEVEL IT MAY BE THE THING WE ARE MOST FOND OF.

PERHAPS BECAUSE OF HOW AND WHERE WE FOUND IT OR IF IT IS OUR FIRST OR A GIFT FROM SOMEONE WE CARE ABOUT OR SOMETHING WE SEARCHED FOR FOR 50 YEARS AND FINALLY GOT.

Jazz · 28th July 2011, 05:34 PM

Thank you, Gav. that's a beautiful kampilan! ever since you have posted that, I've been dreaming about owning a similar type, with bells and double handguards. you are indeed lucky to acquire that!
would you care to post your ivory kampilan, Batara? It would indeed be nice to have some sort of database for the holy grail.
Okay, we are starting to narrow it down here.
so for a kampilan, an ivory and gold handle (similar to the one on Cato's book, I believe it's the one that's in the Philippine Museum) or similar would be THE holy grail.
For kriss: a large cockatoo ivory pommel with gold handle, and twistcore. i concur with that! I wonder if our fellow forumite Bill M. would have an example of that type that he can post (hint, hint). there is a fine example on Cato's book as well.
For the barong:Bill M's barong would certainly qualify as the holy grail in the barong world! I have not seen a lot of those myself. Again, going back to Cato's book, there is a barong that has a similar type of handle materials. Hope whoever owns it at the moment would post a clearer picture, or pictures. here's a link to his wonderful gold and ivory barong:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=barong

David · 28th July 2011, 05:46 PM

I think Bill's example that you link to her is pretty close for me, but i also think that this is pretty much a personal matter. I don't think a general "holy grail" exists.

Jazz · 28th July 2011, 06:08 PM

Of course there is, David. we just haven't established it yet.

Battara · 29th July 2011, 05:11 AM

Jazz - your wish is granted:

(the eyes are silver coins, the "staple" is silver, and the grip is made of alternating silver and copper okir bands)

David · 30th July 2011, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz

Of course there is, David. we just haven't established it yet.

Sorry Jazz, i disagree. Tastes vary far too widely amongst collectors for there ever to be agreement on a "holy grail" of Moro weapons. The comparison is weird anyway. The Holy Grail is a singular article of desired attainment. As collectors we never desire just one thing.

And it is not desired because it is necessarily beautifully crafted or stunningly decorated, but because of how it was used and whose lips it reportedly touched (and as the story goes, whose blood it may have once held).
You might come closer narrowing down the field asking for a "holy grai"l of kris, or kampilan, or barong, etc. But even then tastes will vary. Not everyone likes fancy, pretty weapons. Some collectors prefer a good battle blade to a dandied up datu weapon. Maybe my ideal of the "holy grail" of kris is not the pretty, perfect weapon, but the one historically known to have brought down some high ranking American officer in battle. That would be more in keeping with the grail concept anyway as the actual Holy Grail, if such a thing does exist, is most probably a modest little cup that had a fantastic history, not some silver or gold jewel encrusted thing.
I am afraid that you or anybody else will never be able to establish what i like personally. It just can't be done.

That said this thread is a great opportunity to show off everyone's best and favorite Moro weapons. So bring 'em on fellas. But i can assure you nothing will be establishes by it.

29th July 2011, 05:11 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Jazz - your wish is granted: (the eyes are silver coins, the "staple" is silver, and the grip is made of alternating silver and copper okir bands) Attached Images

27th July 2011, 03:54 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	OH yeah, good point (like the one on top of my head )!

28th July 2011, 02:39 AM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I SUPPOSE THE KAMPILLIAN USED BY LAPU LAPU TO KILL MAGELLAN, WITH GOOD AUTHENTIC PROVENANCE ALONG WITH OTHER TROPHYS FROM THE VICTORY BOUGHT FROM THE DESENDENTS OF LAPU LAPU WOULD BE A HOLY GRAIL OF SORTS. HIGH END EXAMPLES FROM CATOS BOOK WOULD ALSO QUALIFY. AUTHENTIC PROVENANCE IS MORE RARE THAN THE WEAPONS WE COLLECT SO ANY WEAPON WITH INFO AND THE MORE ACURATE INFO THERE IS THE BETTER. QUALITY, PRICE, MATERIALS USED TO MAKE IT ,IF IT CAN BE ASSIGNED TO A FAMOUS MAKER OF WEAPONS OR TO A PERSON OF NOTE SUCH AS ROYALTY ALL PLAY A PART ON A INDIVIDUAL LEVEL IT MAY BE THE THING WE ARE MOST FOND OF. PERHAPS BECAUSE OF HOW AND WHERE WE FOUND IT OR IF IT IS OUR FIRST OR A GIFT FROM SOMEONE WE CARE ABOUT OR SOMETHING WE SEARCHED FOR FOR 50 YEARS AND FINALLY GOT.

28th July 2011, 05:34 PM	#4
Jazz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 44	Thank you, Gav. that's a beautiful kampilan! ever since you have posted that, I've been dreaming about owning a similar type, with bells and double handguards. you are indeed lucky to acquire that! would you care to post your ivory kampilan, Batara? It would indeed be nice to have some sort of database for the holy grail. Okay, we are starting to narrow it down here. so for a kampilan, an ivory and gold handle (similar to the one on Cato's book, I believe it's the one that's in the Philippine Museum) or similar would be THE holy grail. For kriss: a large cockatoo ivory pommel with gold handle, and twistcore. i concur with that! I wonder if our fellow forumite Bill M. would have an example of that type that he can post (hint, hint). there is a fine example on Cato's book as well. For the barong:Bill M's barong would certainly qualify as the holy grail in the barong world! I have not seen a lot of those myself. Again, going back to Cato's book, there is a barong that has a similar type of handle materials. Hope whoever owns it at the moment would post a clearer picture, or pictures. here's a link to his wonderful gold and ivory barong: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=barong

28th July 2011, 05:46 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I think Bill's example that you link to her is pretty close for me, but i also think that this is pretty much a personal matter. I don't think a general "holy grail" exists.

28th July 2011, 06:08 PM	#6
Jazz Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 44	Of course there is, David. we just haven't established it yet.