Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 26th July 2011, 06:40 PM   #1
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Hi Rick,

I do think it was mounted but only for a short time: the steel (it's not really a battery as with snaphaunces the pan cover is not an integral part of the steel) shows flint scratches.
Still it is in amazing condition!

Best,
Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2011, 07:23 PM   #2
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

For comparison:

One of the better quality North African early 19th c. snaphaunces.

Best,
Michael
Attached Images
    
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2011, 08:02 PM   #3
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,630
Default

Michael: You are correct on both counts. Don't know how I missed that?? The frizzen does show scratches, but not many. When did they refer to a frizzen as a "battery"? I thought it was during this early period? Maybe a little later in the Doglock period? Thanks, Rick.
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2011, 08:14 PM   #4
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,630
Default

Michael: That Moroccan snaphaunce lock looks almost exactly like mine - even the frizzen - with the exception of the top screw on mine. Hmmmmm.
I have a couple of these guns. Wonder if it's actually a later Middle Eastern copy? It's just the quality of the forging on this one is definately better than the other dozen or so Moroccan locks I've seen. Also, the interior of the lock has the addition of a clamp that stabalizes the pan cover arm. What do you think? Thanks, Rick.
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th July 2011, 08:31 PM   #5
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Hi Rick,

The term frizzen/battery is, according to Dr. Thorsten Lenk's The Origin and Development of the Flintlock, only associated with the true flintlock mechanism wich seems to have appeared for the first time in France in ca. 1615. As I said before, frizzen/battery defines the combination of pan cover and steel in one piece.

The English dog lock of the 1630s-40s definitely employed a fully developed frizzen.

As to your English snaphaunce mechanism: I didn't mean to trouble you at all! I'm still convinced it's English, and your definnition and criteria mentioned are absolutely correct!

Best from a cold and windy Bavarian night to a hot Missouri,
Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2011, 08:05 PM   #6
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,630
Default

Michael: Thanks again for your help. Been a fun Thread. From a HOT 102 degree F Midwestern U.S. Rick.
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th July 2011, 11:03 PM   #7
Matchlock
(deceased)
 
Matchlock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
Default

Hi Rick,

Thanks too,
and best from another cold (16 degrees centigrade) and rainy Bavarian midnight,

Michael
Matchlock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th July 2011, 09:09 PM   #8
rickystl
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO area.
Posts: 1,630
Default UPDATE

I sent these photos to Mr. Brian Godwin in the U.K. for his opinion. Brian is considered one of the foremost autorities on the Snaphaunce lock. Here is his response:
Hi Rick,

Many thanks for the images of your snaphance lock. In my opinion it is North African and absolutely typical of its type. As you rightly say, they do copy the English snaphance of the early 17th century but there are subtle and very characteristic differences. Among these differences are the lockplate, which is generally much narrower (as you point out); the frizzen face, which is usually much wider; and the presence of a pan cover guide or retainer fixed over the pan (your image 003 - I have never seen one on an English snaphance). Most importantly, almost every English snaphance I have examined, whether a plain or a highly decorated version, is very well made and each component is carefully crafted and fits together well. This is just not the case for the North African snaphance which, generally, varies greatly in quality between good and bad, but they are never as well made as the English original. Your lock looks to be in very good condition and none of the components appear to be missing. I’m not trying to be negative about your lock but there are huge differences between the North African and the original English made examples.

As your lock type copies the early 17th century snaphance it is very difficult to date but the most likely period is somewhere in the 18th or 19th century and it was almost certainly produced locally. The most likely area is Morocco, as you mention. Some have the part rounded type components while others have flat components. I would suggest that the marks on the hammer (cock) are accidental.
I hope you are not too disappointed. It would have been great if it had been an English snaphance but it seems so very few have survived and none have to light through my Website enquiries yet. The North African snaphance is still a fascinating mechanism and you seem to have a very good example of one.

The best literature on the North African snaphance is found in;

“Firearms of the Islamic World” by Robert Elgood, London 1995, and “The Snaphance Muskets of al-Maghreb al-Mqsa” by Jim Gooding, Canadian Arms Collecting Journal, 1996.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Brian

Well, there goes my 15 minutes of fame In the back of my mind, I thought this might actually be a North African lock. Especially after one of the photos Michael sent me. It's just in the best condition I ever seen on or off a gun. As Brian says, too many differences. Anyway, I didn't pay much for it. It will make a nice addition to my lock collection. Thanks for looking. Rick.
rickystl is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.