Shashka mostlikely Bukharan

Jim McDougall · 20th July 2011, 04:40 PM

Yeowwweee!!! Gav, there they are!!! Absolutely breathtaking panoply of these sabres. Now I need to go lay down a while

I agree with Alex this shashka seems more inclined toward Afghan. The 'Safavid' term for this weapon is of course somewhat misplaced chronologically, and while that dynasty effectively ended in 1736, its impact obviously remains strong in the Iranian character and culture thus the term is meant more figuratively I would imagine. With this being a relatively modern piece perhaps they cannot have meant Safavid literally, the Safavids did not use shashkas, nor were these forms present in those times. The ricasso on the blade is most interesting as noted and not characteristic of these weapons in these regions but more to Northern India, suggesting the blade may be from there, and even more supporting Afghan provenance.

A.alnakkas · 22nd July 2011, 12:50 PM

Attractive saber, AJ!

Amazing collection Gav. The Bukharan, as you told me is the top one. Is it identified by the hilt shape? the blades look very similar!

I always wondered why these sabers have no guard. They look very attractive though.

The two bottom ones have blades almost identical to ones I seen in arab swords.

Gavin Nugent · 23rd July 2011, 06:14 AM

True Buhkaran sabres are a special breed un to themselves andsomewhat of a mystery.

I know the city night watchmen and day guards within the walls did not wear swords during the later part of the 19th century and it is likey this was the case earlier too so I can only assume at this point in time that the Buhkaran sabres were only in the hands of military forces or men who could afford them and were allowed to wear them.

The below image and the one shown at the top of my grouping above will help seperate the Bukharan sabres from the other larger Afghan or Central Asian cousins such as the one you present AJ.

Philip Tom describes the Bukharan form best. From a post I can not pinpoint at present;

Quote;
"1. The "szabla bukharska" generally has a blade whose width expands just before it meets the handle. (sometimes the effect is subtle because of repeated sharpening, but even in such cases the change in width is apparent when you compare the edge and spine contours) Occasionally, the edge widens out to a short blunted area or "ricasso", a feature seen on many Indian talwars and Afghan puluoar blades. The shashka's curve or contour at the edge tends to maintain a more constant relationship to that of the spine, and a prominent ricasso is generally absent.

2. Bukharska tips are generally more acute than the more deeply radiused edge at the average shashka's point.

3. The hilt of a shaskha is invariably "cleft" with a deep V notch between two "ears" at the pommel. Bukharska hilts are solid and don't expand into these big ears.

4. The mouth of the bukharska scabbard never swallows the hilt of the sword like the majority of shashka scabbards do. The slightly wedge-shaped "nose" of the blade bolster nests in a shallow V shaped cutout in the mouth of the scabbard.

If you look at the closest weapon that incorporates all 4 of the above features which are characteristic of these Turkestan sabers, you come up with ..... the Persian pesh kabz. Imagine that you can inject a curved bladed pesh kabz with steroids, and massage it just a little bit, and you can see how these sabers could come about.

5. Another thing comes to mind: Shashkas for the most part seem to be universally long, the blades generally over 31 inches (unless damaged and re tipped). I have noted a large proportion of bukharskas that tend to be on the short side, well under 30 inches. The shashka is of course a horseman's weapon, so length is important. The peoples of Turkestan had cavalry forces too, but in states such as Bukhara, Samarqand, and Khiva, the rulers fielded infantry forces as well. Admittedly, we do not have complete information yet about the use of these sabers; Herr Rohrer states that the exact manner of attaching the scabbard to the wearer's body was not known. So, further research is needed."Unquote.

Below is an Image from the Moscow Museum or Oriental art.

Descriptions are as follows.

""Bukhara, Uzbekistan. 19th century

Steel, silver gilt, turquoise, bone.

Length 101 cm. Inv. No. 3404 III

Received in 1949 from a private collection.

Steel, velvet, turquoise, bone.

Length 92 cm. Inv. No. 2280

Received in 1930 from a private collection

Steel, turquoise, enamel.

Length 90 cm. lnv.No.3705 III

Received in 1952 from the Hermitage, Leningrad. First publication.

The blades of sabres were made of high-quality steel and often decorated with engraved ornamentation. The scabbards were usually decorated with great lavishness. They were made of precious materials-white or gilded silver adorned with chased or engraved floral patterns. They were also frequently decorated with polychrome enamels and set with precious or semiprecious stones- diamonds, corals and polished turquoise which, according to local beliefs, brought luck.

In the 19th century, cold steel practically lost its primary function as a weapon and became merely an attribute of men's costumes on festive and ceremonial occasion. In the khanates of Bukhara, Kokand and Khiva such sabres were granted as rewards to courtiers and presented as gifts to foreign ambassadors and rulers.""

This image is not to say all Bukharan sabres are stone encrusted beauties (one of which I hope to obtain one day), mine is testament to plainer dress and so far it is of a unique blade profile.

Gav

A.alnakkas · 23rd July 2011, 10:39 AM

I can feel my bank account cry as I set the plan to own one of those haha

Thanks for the info Gav, its a treasure to a beginner like me :-)

Gavin Nugent · 23rd July 2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

I can feel my bank account cry as I set the plan to own one of those haha

Thanks for the info Gav, its a treasure to a beginner like me :-)

Bank account.....yeah I have one too but the balance...well there is a sad story....

Happy to help Lofty and I hope it is of some help to others too.

Gav

AJ1356 · 23rd July 2011, 05:38 PM

Gav that is some great info, and those are some beautiful scabards, pretty sure the blades inside are awesome as well. My grandmother was from Samarqand and I remember when i was super young there was a sword at home that they had brought with them after the Russians had invaded and they had migerated to Afghanistan. It was all metal with no scabard but the hilt shape was just like the ones you pictured. One a second thought maybe i should try to see how i can get that.
Back to my shashka, This week I am super busy at work, Hopefully in a couple of days i can get everything done and go and pay off this shashka and then take some better pictures. I bet with the pictures of the full lenght blade it would be easier to indentify. On another thought I wonder who came up with the word Palowar/Palouar for afghan swords, we call them simply as shamshir, just like pretty much every other sword.

Gavin Nugent · 24th July 2011, 10:27 AM

I look forward to seeing the old sword if you can find it AJ.

Here is a better side by side view to show size and curve and other blade aspects.

Gav

Dom · 24th July 2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

True Buhkaran sabres are a special breed un to themselves and some what of a mystery.
...snip...
This image is not to say all Bukharan sabres are stone encrusted beauties

Hi Gav
but, I think that we might said that;
- all (or roughly) swords or daggers with turquoise decor on hilt or scabbard come at least from Bukhara

à +

Dom

AJ1356 · 24th July 2011, 03:29 PM

I picked up the shashka today so here are some more pictures. Have to mention the it is super light. the overall lenght is about 34inches, and the blade is about 28 inches, the thickness of the blade on the spine is about 3/16 of an inch maybe less and the blade is about as wide as a US quarter. At the tip the blade becomes double edged (ofcourse not as sharp as the main edge) and then comes to a sudden point as show in picture. I don't have better ligghting to take better pictures.

23rd July 2011, 06:14 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	True Buhkaran sabres are a special breed un to themselves andsomewhat of a mystery. I know the city night watchmen and day guards within the walls did not wear swords during the later part of the 19th century and it is likey this was the case earlier too so I can only assume at this point in time that the Buhkaran sabres were only in the hands of military forces or men who could afford them and were allowed to wear them. The below image and the one shown at the top of my grouping above will help seperate the Bukharan sabres from the other larger Afghan or Central Asian cousins such as the one you present AJ. Philip Tom describes the Bukharan form best. From a post I can not pinpoint at present; Quote; "1. The "szabla bukharska" generally has a blade whose width expands just before it meets the handle. (sometimes the effect is subtle because of repeated sharpening, but even in such cases the change in width is apparent when you compare the edge and spine contours) Occasionally, the edge widens out to a short blunted area or "ricasso", a feature seen on many Indian talwars and Afghan puluoar blades. The shashka's curve or contour at the edge tends to maintain a more constant relationship to that of the spine, and a prominent ricasso is generally absent. 2. Bukharska tips are generally more acute than the more deeply radiused edge at the average shashka's point. 3. The hilt of a shaskha is invariably "cleft" with a deep V notch between two "ears" at the pommel. Bukharska hilts are solid and don't expand into these big ears. 4. The mouth of the bukharska scabbard never swallows the hilt of the sword like the majority of shashka scabbards do. The slightly wedge-shaped "nose" of the blade bolster nests in a shallow V shaped cutout in the mouth of the scabbard. If you look at the closest weapon that incorporates all 4 of the above features which are characteristic of these Turkestan sabers, you come up with ..... the Persian pesh kabz. Imagine that you can inject a curved bladed pesh kabz with steroids, and massage it just a little bit, and you can see how these sabers could come about. 5. Another thing comes to mind: Shashkas for the most part seem to be universally long, the blades generally over 31 inches (unless damaged and re tipped). I have noted a large proportion of bukharskas that tend to be on the short side, well under 30 inches. The shashka is of course a horseman's weapon, so length is important. The peoples of Turkestan had cavalry forces too, but in states such as Bukhara, Samarqand, and Khiva, the rulers fielded infantry forces as well. Admittedly, we do not have complete information yet about the use of these sabers; Herr Rohrer states that the exact manner of attaching the scabbard to the wearer's body was not known. So, further research is needed."Unquote. Below is an Image from the Moscow Museum or Oriental art. Descriptions are as follows. ""Bukhara, Uzbekistan. 19th century Steel, silver gilt, turquoise, bone. Length 101 cm. Inv. No. 3404 III Received in 1949 from a private collection. Steel, velvet, turquoise, bone. Length 92 cm. Inv. No. 2280 Received in 1930 from a private collection Steel, turquoise, enamel. Length 90 cm. lnv.No.3705 III Received in 1952 from the Hermitage, Leningrad. First publication. The blades of sabres were made of high-quality steel and often decorated with engraved ornamentation. The scabbards were usually decorated with great lavishness. They were made of precious materials-white or gilded silver adorned with chased or engraved floral patterns. They were also frequently decorated with polychrome enamels and set with precious or semiprecious stones- diamonds, corals and polished turquoise which, according to local beliefs, brought luck. In the 19th century, cold steel practically lost its primary function as a weapon and became merely an attribute of men's costumes on festive and ceremonial occasion. In the khanates of Bukhara, Kokand and Khiva such sabres were granted as rewards to courtiers and presented as gifts to foreign ambassadors and rulers."" This image is not to say all Bukharan sabres are stone encrusted beauties (one of which I hope to obtain one day), mine is testament to plainer dress and so far it is of a unique blade profile. Gav Attached Images

24th July 2011, 10:27 AM	#7
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Blades I look forward to seeing the old sword if you can find it AJ. Here is a better side by side view to show size and curve and other blade aspects. Gav Attached Images

24th July 2011, 03:29 PM	#9
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 317	I picked up the shashka today so here are some more pictures. Have to mention the it is super light. the overall lenght is about 34inches, and the blade is about 28 inches, the thickness of the blade on the spine is about 3/16 of an inch maybe less and the blade is about as wide as a US quarter. At the tip the blade becomes double edged (ofcourse not as sharp as the main edge) and then comes to a sudden point as show in picture. I don't have better ligghting to take better pictures. Attached Images

20th July 2011, 04:40 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Yeowwweee!!! Gav, there they are!!! Absolutely breathtaking panoply of these sabres. Now I need to go lay down a while I agree with Alex this shashka seems more inclined toward Afghan. The 'Safavid' term for this weapon is of course somewhat misplaced chronologically, and while that dynasty effectively ended in 1736, its impact obviously remains strong in the Iranian character and culture thus the term is meant more figuratively I would imagine. With this being a relatively modern piece perhaps they cannot have meant Safavid literally, the Safavids did not use shashkas, nor were these forms present in those times. The ricasso on the blade is most interesting as noted and not characteristic of these weapons in these regions but more to Northern India, suggesting the blade may be from there, and even more supporting Afghan provenance.

22nd July 2011, 12:50 PM	#2
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	Attractive saber, AJ! Amazing collection Gav. The Bukharan, as you told me is the top one. Is it identified by the hilt shape? the blades look very similar! I always wondered why these sabers have no guard. They look very attractive though. The two bottom ones have blades almost identical to ones I seen in arab swords.

23rd July 2011, 10:39 AM	#4
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	I can feel my bank account cry as I set the plan to own one of those haha Thanks for the info Gav, its a treasure to a beginner like me :-)

23rd July 2011, 05:38 PM	#6
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 317	Gav that is some great info, and those are some beautiful scabards, pretty sure the blades inside are awesome as well. My grandmother was from Samarqand and I remember when i was super young there was a sword at home that they had brought with them after the Russians had invaded and they had migerated to Afghanistan. It was all metal with no scabard but the hilt shape was just like the ones you pictured. One a second thought maybe i should try to see how i can get that. Back to my shashka, This week I am super busy at work, Hopefully in a couple of days i can get everything done and go and pay off this shashka and then take some better pictures. I bet with the pictures of the full lenght blade it would be easier to indentify. On another thought I wonder who came up with the word Palowar/Palouar for afghan swords, we call them simply as shamshir, just like pretty much every other sword.