Keris blade

[David]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Hi detlef,

i hope you dont take my earlier comment as an insult. My point was, since the keris was believed to have been made in East Java or Lombok in particular, so dress it in whatever you see fit. But if was most likely made by an empu or even a pande, then the dress has to be more particular.

However, from my own understanding, the keris dress is not necessarily attributed to the place of origin, but rather where the keris was last found (where and who was the last owner). This however only applies to Nusantara area.

Hope this clarifies, but feel free to ask if my words are hard to understand

I believe i understand where you are coming from Penagsang, but i think i will agree to disagree. Detlef is not a native of the Indonesian Archipelago. If he were then perhaps it would be appropriate to dress this keris to his own particular cultural region. I doubt very much that the provenance exists to determine which of the cultures of the archipelago this keris was last dressed in so i will continue to maintain that the most appropriate dress would be in the style of the place of origin of the blade.

[PenangsangII]

Thks David for your opinion....and to certain extent I agree... but pls take a look at this pic

[A. G. Maisey]

Penangsang, I am having a great deal of difficulty in understanding exactly what you mean when you say:-

"--- the line of the blumbangan would be nicely touch the tips of the sogokan, and cross the middle of 2nd luk---"

I have had not a little instruction in the layout of keris that conform to Surakarta and Mataram tangguh.

My teachers in this have been Empu Suparman Supowijaya and Empu Pauzan Pusposukadgo, additionally I count amongst my close friends several working pande keris.

I am unable to align anything I have ever heard from any of these people with what I think you might be saying.

I have looked at several keris that are in my care which are attributed to noted makers, such as Empu Jayasukadgo, Empu Kinom, Empu Guling, and I cannot align what I see in these blades with what you have written.

Could I trouble you to clarify exactly what you mean by the statement I have quoted above?

Thank you.

[David]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Thks David for your opinion....and to certain extent I agree... but pls take a look at this pic

Thanks Penangsang. I have taken a good look at the keris you have posted and don't understand how it relates to what i have said. Could you explain?

[PenangsangII]

in reply to post no 29 by Alan.

I just cannot explain it in a good understandable words, but here it goes. If we put a straight ruler from the edge of blumbangan (near the gandik), the straight line will touch nicely the tip/s of the sogokan and crosses the first luk after the wadidang (luk no 2). I have these 2 pictures to describe it, but since I dont have a digital camera right now, I used my cellphone to thake the photographs. I am posting also using my cellphone, so forgive the quality of the pics.[IMG]http://[/IMG]

[A. G. Maisey]

OK, so you're running the line parallel to the front of the gandik, and in the middle of the gandik ?

I have not ever encountered this idea.

I can immediately think of a number of reasons as to why the approach might be illogical, but before I say anything I'll try to do some actual checking and see what sort of results I get.

May I enquire where you got this approach from?

Thanks.

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

OK, so you're running the line parallel to the front of the gandik, and in the middle of the gandik ?

I have not ever encountered this idea.

I can immediately think of a number of reasons as to why the approach might be illogical, but before I say anything I'll try to do some actual checking and see what sort of results I get.

May I enquire where you got this approach from?

Thanks.

information from an empuship - Magetan Clan

Actually there are several more "sifir' to confirm an empu made blade, but I cannot tell all as forgers may take the cue to fool everyone in the future

[A. G. Maisey]

Oh, I see.

Those people.

Interesting.

Yes, you would be wise to keep that additional information to yourself.

Incidentally Penangsang, you have used the word "sifir" several times. I can guess what you mean by the use of this word, but I do not know the word. I have asked four native speakers of Javanese, two from East Jawa, two from Central Jawa, and they do not recognise the word. I have checked six Javanese dictionaries and I cannot find the word.

Can you tell me what language, or dialect this word comes from?

Thanks.