Talismanic symbols on moro kris blades gallery!

kino · 18th July 2011, 02:10 AM

I have seen ukkil of vines and flowers, chevron lines, half circles that I believe are placed for purely decorative purposes and I have seen symbols of circles, stars, tridents, cresents, prayers that have magical and protective meanings or purposes.

Where does decorative end and the talismanic symbols start?
Is it up to one's interpretation?

Battara · 18th July 2011, 03:41 AM

Kino, that is a good point.

I am sure that the "X"s on Maurice's blade are talismanic and I know that the stylized crocodile on one of my blades is talismanic. Remember that some talismanic designs are made of okir.

On my other kris I would agree that the okir might be only decorative (and I may have misread the post

).

mohd · 18th July 2011, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice

.. moro krisses, only with talismanic symbols/inlay in the blade ..

Hi Maurice, IMVHO that's not a talismanic symbols/inlay.
Those're just engraved/inlaid adornments/decorations .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

.. the stylized crocodile on one of my blades is talismanic ..

Is it a crocodile or a lizard?
In Malay world lizard is a symbol of cautiousness/alertness.
And that symbol doesn't has any talismanic value at all but a mere reminder to the owner of the item to always be cautious/alert.

Below are samples of diagram with talismanic value:

Hope my two cents helps!

mohd

Battara · 18th July 2011, 03:35 PM

Very helpful Mohd thank you.

IN the Philippine world, stylized animals and "x"s are talismanic symbols. The "lizard" is in fact a stylized crocodile, a power symbol.

Maurice · 18th July 2011, 04:15 PM

Battara thank you for your contribution of sharing those wonderfull krisses.
I could imagine that the crocodile figure is for talismanic, and the defoliate decoration on the other kris more as decoration...Which I'm glad you also shared in this thread.

Unfortunately I don't have the answer of what will be only used as decoration, and what will be used as talismanic purposes.
But somewhere in the back of my head I remember I've read something in an old book (which I can't recall in my mind), that motifs, filled with silver or gold inlay, means to be there to strengthen the owner and protect him against evil or harm.
I'm sure there must be more knowledge about this here of forumites and I hope this thread will be interesting which eventually give us a good sight on what to see as decoration and what to see as talismanic purposes.

It seems that I'm not the only one having these questions, considering the posts of mohd and kino..
And this was exactly what I wanted to cause by this thread.

Please share more images and knowledge about this!
I'm getting real curious now to learn more.....

Maurice

Battara · 18th July 2011, 06:44 PM

For Moro pieces, Cato's Moro Swords is one source that is specifically tailored for Moro swords and discusses for example the "x" as a talismanic mark (p.92 for starters)...........

Other tribes that are not mentioned in Cato can be found with their talismanic symbols in Philippine textile works, like Textiles of the Southern Philippines .............

David · 18th July 2011, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

For Moro pieces, Cato's Moro Swords is one source that is specifically tailored for Moro swords and discusses for example the "x" as a talismanic mark (p.92 for starters)...........

Other tribes that are not mentioned in Cato can be found with their talismanic symbols in Philippine textile works, like Textiles of the Southern Philippines .............

Frankly José Cato refers only very briefly to the Xs on the spine of a panabas as "ornamental/talismanic", a catch-all phrase which to me seems just a bit meaningless and unsupported. That being said, i am of the mind that the "X" designs on Maurice's blade that curve inward (a very different "X" pattern than the ones Cato notes on the spine of the panabas. I don't think we can consider all type of "x" patterns to be equal) are most probably talismanic in nature. The stylized croc might also be considered to have a talismanic element (certainly the animal is considered powerful), but it seems to me that all these other markings are merely decorative.

kino · 18th July 2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

.

I am sure that the "X"s on Maurice's blade are talismanic and I know that the stylized crocodile on one of my blades is talismanic. Remember that some talismanic designs are made of okir.

On my other kris I would agree that the okir might be only decorative (and I may have misread the post

).

Thanks for the clarification Battara and I agree with you.
That is a nice interpretation of a Crocodile on your lovely Kris ( I don't think I have ever seen that kris before). A photo of a Moro Buwaya pangi.

Mohd, I have to respectfully disagree with you on the "X", inlaid on Maurice's kris. I don't think the Mindanao/ Sulu moros played with the same rules as their Malay brethren. Cato had mentioned that some practiced "folk Islam", in which they tailored their religious practice to fit their lifestye. Thanks for posting photos of the talisman.

Maurice that is a really nice kris. Good topic.

18th July 2011, 06:44 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	For Moro pieces, Cato's Moro Swords is one source that is specifically tailored for Moro swords and discusses for example the "x" as a talismanic mark (p.92 for starters)........... Other tribes that are not mentioned in Cato can be found with their talismanic symbols in Philippine textile works, like Textiles of the Southern Philippines ............. Last edited by Battara; 18th July 2011 at 06:55 PM.

18th July 2011, 02:10 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,018	I have seen ukkil of vines and flowers, chevron lines, half circles that I believe are placed for purely decorative purposes and I have seen symbols of circles, stars, tridents, cresents, prayers that have magical and protective meanings or purposes. Where does decorative end and the talismanic symbols start? Is it up to one's interpretation?

18th July 2011, 03:41 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Kino, that is a good point. I am sure that the "X"s on Maurice's blade are talismanic and I know that the stylized crocodile on one of my blades is talismanic. Remember that some talismanic designs are made of okir. On my other kris I would agree that the okir might be only decorative (and I may have misread the post ).

18th July 2011, 03:35 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Very helpful Mohd thank you. IN the Philippine world, stylized animals and "x"s are talismanic symbols. The "lizard" is in fact a stylized crocodile, a power symbol.

18th July 2011, 04:15 PM	#5
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	Battara thank you for your contribution of sharing those wonderfull krisses. I could imagine that the crocodile figure is for talismanic, and the defoliate decoration on the other kris more as decoration...Which I'm glad you also shared in this thread. Unfortunately I don't have the answer of what will be only used as decoration, and what will be used as talismanic purposes. But somewhere in the back of my head I remember I've read something in an old book (which I can't recall in my mind), that motifs, filled with silver or gold inlay, means to be there to strengthen the owner and protect him against evil or harm. I'm sure there must be more knowledge about this here of forumites and I hope this thread will be interesting which eventually give us a good sight on what to see as decoration and what to see as talismanic purposes. It seems that I'm not the only one having these questions, considering the posts of mohd and kino.. And this was exactly what I wanted to cause by this thread. Please share more images and knowledge about this! I'm getting real curious now to learn more..... Maurice