Little SEA knife for ID

Sajen · 4th July 2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Detlef,

Thanks for posting these nice reference pictures.
Soemba is Sumba AFAIK. But having been there myself I am quite positive that your knife isn't made in Sumba.
To me it looks like a Siraui. It's only the hilt that is slightly non-text book. Why do you doubt it when holding it in your hands?
Mine (variation #1) is 31 cm out of sheath, also has a horn hilt and is quite heavy.

Michael

Hello Michael,

thank you for confirm that Soemba is Sumba. I have my doubts since this knife look more like a utility knife than a weapon. When you look for example the graceful examples Charles posted in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=siraui
This two knifes look much more like a weapon like my one. Also your very nice second example is more a weapon than a utility knife.

Regards,

Detlef

VVV · 4th July 2011, 05:09 PM

Detlef,

According to my experience it is Charles' knives that are atypical - not yours, Maurice's and mine. Take a look in the Leiden database for example to see what I mean.

Michael

Sajen · 4th July 2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Detlef,

According to my experience it is Charles' knives that are atypical - not yours, Maurice's and mine. Take a look in the Leiden database for example to see what I mean.

Michael

Hello Michael,

yes, you are correct by this!

But I would be very happy when Charles would change his atypical one against my typical ones!

I just think that your second one and the both from Charles are the older ones which can be used as weapons and the other ones are just utility knifes.

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 5th July 2011, 07:17 AM

Yes Michael, my post did move away from the theme.

The only reason I made that post was to show exactly what is used to harvest rice.

In every place I have ever visited in Indonesia, farmers use tools to harvest rice, and those tools look pretty much like what farmers in Europe, America and Australia used to use before harvesting became mechanised.

They do not use nicely forged and finished blades mounted in elegant scabbards with finely carved horn hilts, to harvest rice.

VVV · 5th July 2011, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

...snip

They do not use nicely forged and finished blades mounted in elegant scabbards with finely carved horn hilts, to harvest rice.

That sounds reasonable.
Here are three of my arit that does not fit that description. Do you, or any other forumite, know what these were used for, if not agricultural?

Michael

Atlantia · 5th July 2011, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

That sounds reasonable.
Here are three of my arit that does not fit that description. Do you, or any other forumite, know what these were used for, if not agricultural?

Michael

Hi Michael,

I have his twin brother:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13919

A. G. Maisey · 5th July 2011, 11:49 PM

Michael, in respect of the three items that you have shown, I am unable to comment in specifics, because I have not ever seen any of these in a place of origin, nor in use, however, they do look rather similar to tools I have seen used for harvesting coconuts and bananas.

I myself have some items of a similar nature that have every appearance of agricultural implements, but are finely finished, and not at all like the tools that are used by farmers. I have also seen, but do not own, very much older farm tools that date back more than 100 years, these were in all respects similar to today's tools.

In Jawa, Bali and Madura, probably the implement that has been used most as a weapon is the arit, or as it is in Madura, the celurit. In any rural area you hardly ever see a farmer without one, either dangling from his hand, or stuck in the back of his waist-band. When disagreements occur, the arit is right there, and it gets used. I have seen several incidents involving use of an arit as a weapon, and in the daily newspapers in Central Jawa, incidents involving fights or assaults with an arit are common. During the purges of communists in the 1960's, in East Jawa, the common method of execution was to cut throats with a celurit. My wife witnessed this twice.

If we look at the weaponry of Jawa , what we find is that apart from the keris and the tombak, most of the other weapons can be identified as agricultural implements, either refined versions of these, or actual tools used as weapons.

4th July 2011, 05:09 PM	#2
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Detlef, According to my experience it is Charles' knives that are atypical - not yours, Maurice's and mine. Take a look in the Leiden database for example to see what I mean. Michael

5th July 2011, 07:17 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,043	Yes Michael, my post did move away from the theme. The only reason I made that post was to show exactly what is used to harvest rice. In every place I have ever visited in Indonesia, farmers use tools to harvest rice, and those tools look pretty much like what farmers in Europe, America and Australia used to use before harvesting became mechanised. They do not use nicely forged and finished blades mounted in elegant scabbards with finely carved horn hilts, to harvest rice.

5th July 2011, 11:49 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,043	Michael, in respect of the three items that you have shown, I am unable to comment in specifics, because I have not ever seen any of these in a place of origin, nor in use, however, they do look rather similar to tools I have seen used for harvesting coconuts and bananas. I myself have some items of a similar nature that have every appearance of agricultural implements, but are finely finished, and not at all like the tools that are used by farmers. I have also seen, but do not own, very much older farm tools that date back more than 100 years, these were in all respects similar to today's tools. In Jawa, Bali and Madura, probably the implement that has been used most as a weapon is the arit, or as it is in Madura, the celurit. In any rural area you hardly ever see a farmer without one, either dangling from his hand, or stuck in the back of his waist-band. When disagreements occur, the arit is right there, and it gets used. I have seen several incidents involving use of an arit as a weapon, and in the daily newspapers in Central Jawa, incidents involving fights or assaults with an arit are common. During the purges of communists in the 1960's, in East Jawa, the common method of execution was to cut throats with a celurit. My wife witnessed this twice. If we look at the weaponry of Jawa , what we find is that apart from the keris and the tombak, most of the other weapons can be identified as agricultural implements, either refined versions of these, or actual tools used as weapons.