Unknown Venezian(?) "marine" dagger

Billman · 26th June 2011, 09:21 AM

Just had another look at the original tool - the handle is very similar to that on some forms of Italian billhooks (roncole) but also those of agricultural knives....

The overall form is very similar to a US corn knife (for corn read maize) - I know this was grown and cultivated widely in Hungary and other Balkan states (many part of the former Austro Hungarian Empire) - and that specialist knives were used for its harvesting, although in Hungary they often used a billhook used for chopping wood..... was probably also grown in Italy, as it is still a major crop in the Alps of neighbouring France

It may this be an Italian corn knife - but still a very unusual find.....

Below a modern US corn knife (somewhere in my collection I have a much older one with a tapered blade):

fearn · 27th June 2011, 12:36 AM

Hi Billman,

There's one of these corn knives for sale in a local hardware store. It's a simple bar of steel, one edge sharpened, with a handle on the other end. It's been there awhile, in part because no one grows corn around here, in part because machetes are cheaper and more versatile (and hanging on the next hook over). I have no idea why they have it.

Best,

F

Billman · 27th June 2011, 02:05 PM

I guess corn knives are still made because the small scale (homestead) farmer prefers this tool to a machete... being a little narrower and lighter, it probably requires a little less energy to swing. After a few days cutting corn, the difference would become noticeable....

On a large scale a combine harvester is now used - but in parts of Italy, the Balkans and Eastern Europe there are still thousands of small scale 'subsistence' farmers.

Manufacturers only make tools, and hardware stores stock them, if there is a market.... The ones you have seen could be old stock, but I guess some firms are still making them...

My hypothesis, still requires proof - one way or another..... but I remain biased towards it being an agricultural tool....

Dmitry · 27th June 2011, 09:14 PM

I believe I know from whence the wind is blowing regarding the attribution as a Venetian boarding weapon.
This piece is in the Higgins Armory Museum collection, which had been attributed by someone as a 16th c. Venetian boarding sword, an attribution I, personally, find curious, but unlikely.

Billman · 1st July 2011, 08:05 AM

The Higgins' boarding sword looks like a one-off butchered sword - the vee shaped notches would stop rigging ropes sliding off the blade, but to be honest they do not look sharp enough to actually do the job in one stroke...

26th June 2011, 09:21 AM	#1
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Just had another look at the original tool - the handle is very similar to that on some forms of Italian billhooks (roncole) but also those of agricultural knives.... The overall form is very similar to a US corn knife (for corn read maize) - I know this was grown and cultivated widely in Hungary and other Balkan states (many part of the former Austro Hungarian Empire) - and that specialist knives were used for its harvesting, although in Hungary they often used a billhook used for chopping wood..... was probably also grown in Italy, as it is still a major crop in the Alps of neighbouring France It may this be an Italian corn knife - but still a very unusual find..... Below a modern US corn knife (somewhere in my collection I have a much older one with a tapered blade): Attached Images Last edited by Billman; 26th June 2011 at 09:32 AM.

27th June 2011, 09:14 PM	#4
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	I believe I know from whence the wind is blowing regarding the attribution as a Venetian boarding weapon. This piece is in the Higgins Armory Museum collection, which had been attributed by someone as a 16th c. Venetian boarding sword, an attribution I, personally, find curious, but unlikely. Attached Images

27th June 2011, 12:36 AM	#2
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Billman, There's one of these corn knives for sale in a local hardware store. It's a simple bar of steel, one edge sharpened, with a handle on the other end. It's been there awhile, in part because no one grows corn around here, in part because machetes are cheaper and more versatile (and hanging on the next hook over). I have no idea why they have it. Best, F

27th June 2011, 02:05 PM	#3
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	I guess corn knives are still made because the small scale (homestead) farmer prefers this tool to a machete... being a little narrower and lighter, it probably requires a little less energy to swing. After a few days cutting corn, the difference would become noticeable.... On a large scale a combine harvester is now used - but in parts of Italy, the Balkans and Eastern Europe there are still thousands of small scale 'subsistence' farmers. Manufacturers only make tools, and hardware stores stock them, if there is a market.... The ones you have seen could be old stock, but I guess some firms are still making them... My hypothesis, still requires proof - one way or another..... but I remain biased towards it being an agricultural tool....

1st July 2011, 08:05 AM	#5
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	The Higgins' boarding sword looks like a one-off butchered sword - the vee shaped notches would stop rigging ropes sliding off the blade, but to be honest they do not look sharp enough to actually do the job in one stroke...