Tulwar with serrated and bifurcated blade

kino · 21st June 2011, 04:40 AM

I got this sword over the weekend. Since someone else is picking up all the nice Moro weapons, I thought I'd focus my aim at something different.
The previous owner thought it's forged from mono steel since he couldn't get a pattern by etching it. I see a slight pattern towards the tip of the blade.

Wasn't there a similar Tulwar posted a while back?

Any meaning to the series of 3 dots on the blade?

Nathaniel · 21st June 2011, 05:18 AM

Beautiful piece! I'll be interested to hear what others will add who are more knowledgeable in this area. Thanks for sharing, Kino

Robert · 21st June 2011, 06:12 AM

Yes, this is an absolutely beautifull sword. I know nothing about these but here are a couple of older threads that show blades that are serrated and bifurcated.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=zulfikar
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=zulfikar
I know that the three dots have been discussed on the forum before too.

Robert

Jim McDougall · 21st June 2011, 06:26 PM

Hi Kino,
This is a handsomely made example of the type of tulwar with open hilt which seems to have been favored by Mughals which were in my opinion court or ceremonial weapons. These seem to be typically attributed to various regions in Rajasthan which were probably the largest areas of tulwar hilt production.
It is always difficult to accurately assess a weapon from photos, and this seems to have been either well cleaned or without significant age coloration. It must be remembered that these weapons were produced well into the 20th century, and indeed production of weapons is still a well established industry in Rajasthan. The hilt seems of 19th century form and the weapon overall very nice quality.

The bifurcated point is of course the well known interpretation of Dhu al Faqar, the Sword of the Prophet Muhammed, and which has typically been interpreted as having two points or somehow cloven. It is now I understand generally held that the more accurate interpretation had to do with being 'possessor of spines', referring to apparantly two fullers or ridges in the blade cross section. In any case, the two point application is believed to be represented in these and numerous Islamic edged weapons with this blade feature.

The three dot feature in this case are actually part of the so called 'sickle marks' which are the two dentated arcs on the blade, and these three dots are actually components of this grouping. These marks are well known among familiar European blade markings as associated with early North Italian guild marks, particularly from Genoa, and later widely adopted in Styrian, Solingen and Caucasian sword blade centers. As European trade blades entered the Indian subcontinent, the marking became adopted later by native swordsmiths as an indicator of quality with perhaps some various concepts either talismanic or of imbued power.
The marks on this blade seem significantly interpretive and somewhat stylized.

The three dot feature is also seen in various applications on weapon blades, sometimes in punched dots, or sometimes as gold metal filled holes, with the exact purpose somewhat unclear though presumed talismanic or possibly to ward away evil in folk religion parlance. Obviously in broader sense, it is well known theologically regarding the trimurti or in Christian religion, the Holy Trinity, with the number three having key significance in many interpretations. This is indeed discussed in many threads over the years here, but in the case of this sword, the triple dots are components of the dentated arc markings.

The serrated blade on this tulwar is also typical of these type swords with bifircated tip as Dhu'l Fiqar also has been interpreted as with wavy edges.

Interesting example, and a bold move into expanding collecting fields Kino!
It is always interesting how the fields of study with these many weapons forms become more closely related as we learn more on thier diffusion among these cultures. The tulwar for example became the forerunner of the Southeast Asian piso podang, and many Indian weapons became established in Ceylon and Indonesia whose influences carried further into other archipelagos.

All the best,
Jim

tom hyle · 21st June 2011, 07:09 PM

I have heard/read that the three dots was originally a Mongol arsenal acceptance mark, equivalent to the British broad arrow, and became a symbol of blade quality, moving outward to various cultures.

CharlesS · 21st June 2011, 07:22 PM

Jim,

I believe the bifurcated blade is associated with Muslim hero(especially for the Shia)Ali more than Mohammed, though according to tradition it was given to Ali by Mohammed. The style has, in fact, become a symbol of Shia Islam and the Imam Ali even today.

Jim McDougall · 21st June 2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Jim,

I believe the bifurcated blade is associated with Muslim hero(especially for the Shia)Ali more than Mohammed, though according to tradition it was given to Ali by Mohammed. The style has, in fact, become a symbol of Shia Islam and the Imam Ali even today.

Thank you Charles for adding this most important clarification. I had neglected to add that most important element regarding the history of this sword. Though it was one of the number of swords owned by Muhammed and actually one of two swords captured by him in the Battle of Badr (630AD-8AH).
The fame of the sword itself indeed derives from the Imam Ali and of Sh'ia Islam. It indeed serves as the symbol of Sh'ia Islam, and there was of course profound Persian influence in the Mughal courts.

All the best,
Jim

rickystl · 21st June 2011, 08:13 PM

I do not know much about swords (I own only one Tulwar

But I must comment that is a GREAT looking piece. Congrats. Rick.

kino · 22nd June 2011, 06:29 AM

Like Rickystl, I also do not know much about these swords.

Jim and CharlesS, Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I don't know how old the sword is, it has been over cleaned. The previous owner had it polished and etched a few times trying to obtain a pattern of a folded blade, with no success.
I'm hesitant to etch it with ferric chloride, for fear of doing irreversible damage.

Thanks all for the kind words.

21st June 2011, 04:40 AM	#1
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Tulwar with serrated and bifurcated blade I got this sword over the weekend. Since someone else is picking up all the nice Moro weapons, I thought I'd focus my aim at something different. The previous owner thought it's forged from mono steel since he couldn't get a pattern by etching it. I see a slight pattern towards the tip of the blade. Wasn't there a similar Tulwar posted a while back? Any meaning to the series of 3 dots on the blade? Attached Images

21st June 2011, 06:26 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,948	Hi Kino, This is a handsomely made example of the type of tulwar with open hilt which seems to have been favored by Mughals which were in my opinion court or ceremonial weapons. These seem to be typically attributed to various regions in Rajasthan which were probably the largest areas of tulwar hilt production. It is always difficult to accurately assess a weapon from photos, and this seems to have been either well cleaned or without significant age coloration. It must be remembered that these weapons were produced well into the 20th century, and indeed production of weapons is still a well established industry in Rajasthan. The hilt seems of 19th century form and the weapon overall very nice quality. The bifurcated point is of course the well known interpretation of Dhu al Faqar, the Sword of the Prophet Muhammed, and which has typically been interpreted as having two points or somehow cloven. It is now I understand generally held that the more accurate interpretation had to do with being 'possessor of spines', referring to apparantly two fullers or ridges in the blade cross section. In any case, the two point application is believed to be represented in these and numerous Islamic edged weapons with this blade feature. The three dot feature in this case are actually part of the so called 'sickle marks' which are the two dentated arcs on the blade, and these three dots are actually components of this grouping. These marks are well known among familiar European blade markings as associated with early North Italian guild marks, particularly from Genoa, and later widely adopted in Styrian, Solingen and Caucasian sword blade centers. As European trade blades entered the Indian subcontinent, the marking became adopted later by native swordsmiths as an indicator of quality with perhaps some various concepts either talismanic or of imbued power. The marks on this blade seem significantly interpretive and somewhat stylized. The three dot feature is also seen in various applications on weapon blades, sometimes in punched dots, or sometimes as gold metal filled holes, with the exact purpose somewhat unclear though presumed talismanic or possibly to ward away evil in folk religion parlance. Obviously in broader sense, it is well known theologically regarding the trimurti or in Christian religion, the Holy Trinity, with the number three having key significance in many interpretations. This is indeed discussed in many threads over the years here, but in the case of this sword, the triple dots are components of the dentated arc markings. The serrated blade on this tulwar is also typical of these type swords with bifircated tip as Dhu'l Fiqar also has been interpreted as with wavy edges. Interesting example, and a bold move into expanding collecting fields Kino! It is always interesting how the fields of study with these many weapons forms become more closely related as we learn more on thier diffusion among these cultures. The tulwar for example became the forerunner of the Southeast Asian piso podang, and many Indian weapons became established in Ceylon and Indonesia whose influences carried further into other archipelagos. All the best, Jim Last edited by Jim McDougall; 21st June 2011 at 08:12 PM.

21st June 2011, 05:18 AM	#2
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Beautiful piece! I'll be interested to hear what others will add who are more knowledgeable in this area. Thanks for sharing, Kino

21st June 2011, 06:12 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Yes, this is an absolutely beautifull sword. I know nothing about these but here are a couple of older threads that show blades that are serrated and bifurcated. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=zulfikar http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=zulfikar I know that the three dots have been discussed on the forum before too. Robert

21st June 2011, 07:09 PM	#5
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	I have heard/read that the three dots was originally a Mongol arsenal acceptance mark, equivalent to the British broad arrow, and became a symbol of blade quality, moving outward to various cultures.

21st June 2011, 07:22 PM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,857	Jim, I believe the bifurcated blade is associated with Muslim hero(especially for the Shia)Ali more than Mohammed, though according to tradition it was given to Ali by Mohammed. The style has, in fact, become a symbol of Shia Islam and the Imam Ali even today.

21st June 2011, 08:13 PM	#8
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,623	I do not know much about swords (I own only one Tulwar But I must comment that is a GREAT looking piece. Congrats. Rick.

22nd June 2011, 06:29 AM	#9
kino Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,002	Like Rickystl, I also do not know much about these swords. Jim and CharlesS, Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I don't know how old the sword is, it has been over cleaned. The previous owner had it polished and etched a few times trying to obtain a pattern of a folded blade, with no success. I'm hesitant to etch it with ferric chloride, for fear of doing irreversible damage. Thanks all for the kind words.