African Spear ...Congolese ?

katana · 13th June 2011, 07:06 PM

Recently acquired 2 spears both almost identical. originally I thought perhaps 'touristy' ....only had pictures, but were cheap enough to 'take a risk'.
On arrival I found the spearheads and butts were painted silvery/grey

with rust patches showing through. Using 'paint stripper' I carefully removed the paint layer ....to be pleasantly surprised that these were much better quality than I first thought

One had very subtle decoration that was completely covered with the paint. The 'blades' are well forged, has a subtle midrib and although relatively thin are extremely strong. I especially like the forged 'triangular' reinforcing at the junction of the blade and socket.
One spear has had a longer (?) replacement shaft but the other has a shaft with a nice 'older' patina and is much shorter (not certain if this is the original length ? ) The edges are reasonably sharp and assume that it could easily be used as a stabbing/slashing spear. Would certainly create a wide, deep entry wound.

OAL 53" /135 cms

spear blade 12" / 30cms Widest point 3 3/4" or 8cms
socket 12cms long

Any one any ideas as to origin and if this type of spear has its own 'name' ? All comments, as usual gratefully received, thank you

David

tom hyle · 13th June 2011, 11:45 PM

That little triangle is similar to a feature sometimes seen on Spanish colonial "Mediterranean dirks"
I think this spear is Berbese or African Arab.

katana · 14th June 2011, 03:37 PM

Hi Tom

,
thank you for your input. I have searched online but cannot find an image of a dirk with this feature. I would be grateful if you have a picture... could you post an example on this thread.

I have also searched for Arabic spears, but so far no joy.

Kind Regards David

colin henshaw · 14th June 2011, 04:02 PM

Hi David

I think this type of spear is from the Lake Chad area - Northern Nigeria or Northern Cameroon. I have also seen something a bit similar from Madagascar.

Regards.

katana · 15th June 2011, 01:19 AM

Hi Colin,
thanks for your thoughts

Have you any pictures you could post ? I'm really stumped with this spear

Kind Regards David

colin henshaw · 15th June 2011, 05:23 PM

Hi David

The best I can lay my hands on at the moment is this illustration (on the far right), from "Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika" by Museum fur Volkerkunde 1985. This example is described as Bornu.

Regards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Colin,
thanks for your thoughts

Have you any pictures you could post ? I'm really stumped with this spear

Kind Regards David

katana · 15th June 2011, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi David

The best I can lay my hands on at the moment is this illustration (on the far right), from "Waffen aus Zentral-Afrika" by Museum fur Volkerkunde 1985. This example is described as Bornu.

Regards.

Thanks Colin

,
indeed very similar. The spear length is quoted as 161.5 cms this might explain the longer socket ....due to the size, to re-inforce the connection with the shaft.

Kind Regards

tom hyle · 16th June 2011, 01:08 PM

There are a couple of differences between the spear we are asked about and the one in the illustration that I find meaningfull, despite an overall similar shape including relatively long nontapering sockets: first is that though the socket ends in a pointed shape in the illustration, it does not seem to indicate the cone, but two more abrupt bolster type lines that intersect. I do not think this is a version of the same feature; I think it is two different features. The second is more subtle, and is that the shoulders where the blade narrows are quite steadily rounded in the illustreation, whereas those on the question spear swing in to a very close approximation of a line that is perpendicular to the socket.

tom hyle · 7th July 2011, 03:04 AM

For an interesting photo comparison see ebay #360371961389 (ended)
There are a couple of daggers currently on ebay with the bolsters like this, but I have to wait for them to end to mention them specifically, and one of them is a perenial relist....
email me at notthattomhyle@hotmail.com and I'll give you those auctions and a couple other photo ones that are active.

tom hyle · 9th July 2011, 07:33 AM

BTW, the ebay item is an old photo of an African arab ox rider with a spear.

katana · 12th July 2011, 11:34 PM

This eprey listing just finished....

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Almost identical to my posted examples (thanks Tom for the 'heads up') Seller suggesting Sudan (or possibly Dogon) as origin. However, Tom also e-mailed some links to several pictures of Sudanese Arab Ox/horse riders with identically shaped spearheads (unfortunately too distant to see any features such as the triangular/conical feature) The horse riders are described as Aulad Hamid Arab horsemen, in the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan 1930

Mods..I have edited/altered the images...if there is any problem with copyright please delete

All the best
David

katana · 15th July 2011, 08:32 PM

Pictures from the ended eBay listing.........as you can see ....identical looking even the design on the socket is the same (the last 2 images are of mine)

13th June 2011, 07:06 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	African Spear ...Congolese ? Recently acquired 2 spears both almost identical. originally I thought perhaps 'touristy' ....only had pictures, but were cheap enough to 'take a risk'. On arrival I found the spearheads and butts were painted silvery/grey with rust patches showing through. Using 'paint stripper' I carefully removed the paint layer ....to be pleasantly surprised that these were much better quality than I first thought One had very subtle decoration that was completely covered with the paint. The 'blades' are well forged, has a subtle midrib and although relatively thin are extremely strong. I especially like the forged 'triangular' reinforcing at the junction of the blade and socket. One spear has had a longer (?) replacement shaft but the other has a shaft with a nice 'older' patina and is much shorter (not certain if this is the original length ? ) The edges are reasonably sharp and assume that it could easily be used as a stabbing/slashing spear. Would certainly create a wide, deep entry wound. OAL 53" /135 cms spear blade 12" / 30cms Widest point 3 3/4" or 8cms socket 12cms long Any one any ideas as to origin and if this type of spear has its own 'name' ? All comments, as usual gratefully received, thank you David Attached Images

12th July 2011, 11:34 PM	#11
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	This eprey listing just finished.... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...=STRK:MEWAX:IT Almost identical to my posted examples (thanks Tom for the 'heads up') Seller suggesting Sudan (or possibly Dogon) as origin. However, Tom also e-mailed some links to several pictures of Sudanese Arab Ox/horse riders with identically shaped spearheads (unfortunately too distant to see any features such as the triangular/conical feature) The horse riders are described as Aulad Hamid Arab horsemen, in the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan 1930 Mods..I have edited/altered the images...if there is any problem with copyright please delete All the best David Attached Images Last edited by katana; 13th July 2011 at 12:01 AM.

15th July 2011, 08:32 PM	#12
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Pictures from the ended eBay listing.........as you can see ....identical looking even the design on the socket is the same (the last 2 images are of mine) Attached Images

13th June 2011, 11:45 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	That little triangle is similar to a feature sometimes seen on Spanish colonial "Mediterranean dirks" I think this spear is Berbese or African Arab.

14th June 2011, 03:37 PM	#3
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Tom , thank you for your input. I have searched online but cannot find an image of a dirk with this feature. I would be grateful if you have a picture... could you post an example on this thread. I have also searched for Arabic spears, but so far no joy. Kind Regards David

14th June 2011, 04:02 PM	#4
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,430	Hi David I think this type of spear is from the Lake Chad area - Northern Nigeria or Northern Cameroon. I have also seen something a bit similar from Madagascar. Regards.

15th June 2011, 01:19 AM	#5
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	Hi Colin, thanks for your thoughts Have you any pictures you could post ? I'm really stumped with this spear Kind Regards David

16th June 2011, 01:08 PM	#8
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	There are a couple of differences between the spear we are asked about and the one in the illustration that I find meaningfull, despite an overall similar shape including relatively long nontapering sockets: first is that though the socket ends in a pointed shape in the illustration, it does not seem to indicate the cone, but two more abrupt bolster type lines that intersect. I do not think this is a version of the same feature; I think it is two different features. The second is more subtle, and is that the shoulders where the blade narrows are quite steadily rounded in the illustreation, whereas those on the question spear swing in to a very close approximation of a line that is perpendicular to the socket.

7th July 2011, 03:04 AM	#9
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	For an interesting photo comparison see ebay #360371961389 (ended) There are a couple of daggers currently on ebay with the bolsters like this, but I have to wait for them to end to mention them specifically, and one of them is a perenial relist.... email me at notthattomhyle@hotmail.com and I'll give you those auctions and a couple other photo ones that are active.

9th July 2011, 07:33 AM	#10
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	BTW, the ebay item is an old photo of an African arab ox rider with a spear.