A Keris for slashing...

mrwizard · 22nd May 2011, 04:52 PM

Hello Detlef,

Thank you for your comments and the restoration advice.

I don't plan to completely remodel this keris. IMHO this would strip the individual character that made me buy it in the first place. Somehow i like those partially broken or imperfect pieces.

My plan was to clean the blade but leave the overall ensemble untouched. Well... maybe i will try to carve a replacement buntut to make it a little more "displayable".

Best Regards,
Thilo

David · 22nd May 2011, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrwizard

Hello Detlef,

Thank you for your comments and the restoration advice.

I don't plan to completely remodel this keris. IMHO this would strip the individual character that made me buy it in the first place. Somehow i like those partially broken or imperfect pieces.

My plan was to clean the blade but leave the overall ensemble untouched. Well... maybe i will try to carve a replacement buntut to make it a little more "displayable".

Best Regards,
Thilo

Thilo, i don't know how or why thos keris ended up in this crazy configuration, but there is nothing very "right" about the dress. The added piece makes no sense is is aesthetically incorrect for any keris that i know off. As has been pointed out, the hilt is from Jawa, the sheath probably peninsula, the piece in between is not correct for either location. The hilt is also facing backwards.
You could go a long way in improving the appearance of this piece simply by removing the odd piece between the hilt and the blade and turning the hilt around to the opposite orientation.

Interesting blade that has a few uncommon features on it such as the "squared" off front edge of the gandik and the triangular shape of the sogokan.

Gustav · 22nd May 2011, 07:29 PM

I would probably leave it as it is. There are some such utilized/adjusted keris blades in Europa, and this is by far not the strangest combo.

The main problem is, when this piece between hilt and blade was added, the sides of gonjo and protruding parts of sorsoran were filed down to fit it with this joint-piece, so the blade is flat now. If you will try to get it in it's "original" state again (without this joint piece, proper hilt, pendokok), you will end with a strange, mutilated blade.

Now we see, WHY it is mutilated, we have a historical context, and this is the most valuable thing regarding this blade.

Sajen · 22nd May 2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

The main problem is, when this piece between hilt and blade was added, the sides of gonjo and protruding parts of sorsoran were filed down to fit it with this joint-piece, so the blade is flat now.

Hello Gustav,

you are sure that it is like this? Maybe Thilo can give some light to this. How fit the blade inside the sheath? Is there any space between sheath and blade?

And I am not sure that this is a european combo, I have seen very weird combos in Indonesia as well.

Regards,

Detlef

Gustav · 22nd May 2011, 08:25 PM

Detlef, I wasn't saying this is an european combo.

Sajen · 22nd May 2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

Detlef, I wasn't saying this is an european combo.

Hello Gustav,

sorry, I read this part to fast!

Regards,

Detlef

mrwizard · 22nd May 2011, 09:08 PM

Sure, from a Keris perspective the current "hilt configuration" is completely wrong. But assumed
this Keris has been modified by a person with an European background for personal use, all those modifications make sense. The backwards facing hilt allows slashes and cuts with the convex curve of the blade. And the the wooden piece between the original hilt provides a secure european sabre like grip. The conical shape prevents the hand from slipping over the blade during powerful trusts.
The thing, how offensive it may look to a keris collector, has a historic context like Gustav has pointed out. And this makes it interesting for me

But good to hear that the keris-blade itself has some uncommon features, make it even more interesting

And i am also happy to anounce that the modification have been very gently to the original keris. Nothing seems to be filed off, neither from the blade nor from the sheath.

Anyway, i'm still struggling getting the hilt off using the candle-method described by Alan in another thread. Assessing my progress so far this may take quite a while...

Best Regards,
Thilo

Gustav · 22nd May 2011, 09:43 PM

"And i am also happy to anounce that the modification have been very gently to the original keris. Nothing seems to be filed off, neither from the blade nor from the sheath."

?

mrwizard · 22nd May 2011, 09:54 PM

Hello Gustav,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gustav

The main problem is, when this piece between hilt and blade was added, the sides of gonjo and protruding parts of sorsoran were filed down to fit it with this joint-piece, so the blade is flat now.

I was referring to this sentence of your post. The keris blade is untouched. The joint-piece was made to fit the keris and not vice versa.

Best Regards,
Thilo

Sajen · 22nd May 2011, 10:12 PM

I know what Gustav mean, the blade look in the sorsoran area very very weird so you can think that it is modified. I guess that it is a Peninsula blade so my hope is that Kai Wee see this thread and can tell us something about this blade.
When Thilo has opened the hilt it would be good when he post again some pictures to get a better view from the blade.

Regards,

Detlef

asomotif · 22nd May 2011, 10:25 PM

Hello Thilo,

I can go a long way with your theory about modification for use in a western slashing style. If the original owner was stationed in Batavia I can imagine that he had it modificated there, explaining the handle.
I agree in keeping the piece in its present configuration considering its history.
Maybe indeed add a buntut and cleaning /oiling the blade.

I hope that maybe other forumites can comment on the blade ?
Are there any age indications for this blade ?

Best regards,
Willem

Gustav · 22nd May 2011, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrwizard

Hello Gustav,

I was referring to this sentence of your post. The keris blade is untouched. The joint-piece was made to fit the keris and not vice versa.

Best Regards,
Thilo

Thilo,

at some time the blade is most probably reworked, gonjo and parts of sorsoran being flattened.

And it would be much more difficult to fit such a joint piece to a gonjo with rounded sides then to one with flat sides, as this joint piece is going over gonjo.

This is, why I think, there would be some coincidence between these two facts. This is only an oppinion.

Best regards,
Gustav

Gustav · 22nd May 2011, 10:39 PM

I am also interested in this kind of blades with multiple sogokan/srawejan/kruwingan. As I understand some of them are attributed to Sumbawa (post #19 and #49 in this thread:http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=kalawija), yet it probably is possible, such blades are occuring in central Sumatra or even Peninsula.

By the way, it seems there is a possibility this blade is having pamor.

The sheath is Peninsular.

mrwizard · 22nd May 2011, 11:40 PM

Hello Gustav,

Thanks for the pointers to Sumbawa. I will look further into it tomorrow.

The keris has a pamor, but it is barely visible in its current state (certainly not on the pictures i took).

I think your impression that gonjo and sorsoran are flattened are due to my poor photographic skills. I will try to make better pictures as soon as i get that hilt off

Meanwhile i tried the good old pencil method.

Best Regards,
Thilo

22nd May 2011, 07:29 PM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	I would probably leave it as it is. There are some such utilized/adjusted keris blades in Europa, and this is by far not the strangest combo. The main problem is, when this piece between hilt and blade was added, the sides of gonjo and protruding parts of sorsoran were filed down to fit it with this joint-piece, so the blade is flat now. If you will try to get it in it's "original" state again (without this joint piece, proper hilt, pendokok), you will end with a strange, mutilated blade. Now we see, WHY it is mutilated, we have a historical context, and this is the most valuable thing regarding this blade. Last edited by Gustav; 22nd May 2011 at 10:49 PM.

22nd May 2011, 09:08 PM	#7
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	Sure, from a Keris perspective the current "hilt configuration" is completely wrong. But assumed this Keris has been modified by a person with an European background for personal use, all those modifications make sense. The backwards facing hilt allows slashes and cuts with the convex curve of the blade. And the the wooden piece between the original hilt provides a secure european sabre like grip. The conical shape prevents the hand from slipping over the blade during powerful trusts. The thing, how offensive it may look to a keris collector, has a historic context like Gustav has pointed out. And this makes it interesting for me But good to hear that the keris-blade itself has some uncommon features, make it even more interesting And i am also happy to anounce that the modification have been very gently to the original keris. Nothing seems to be filed off, neither from the blade nor from the sheath. Anyway, i'm still struggling getting the hilt off using the candle-method described by Alan in another thread. Assessing my progress so far this may take quite a while... Best Regards, Thilo Attached Images

22nd May 2011, 10:39 PM	#13
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	I am also interested in this kind of blades with multiple sogokan/srawejan/kruwingan. As I understand some of them are attributed to Sumbawa (post #19 and #49 in this thread:http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=kalawija), yet it probably is possible, such blades are occuring in central Sumatra or even Peninsula. By the way, it seems there is a possibility this blade is having pamor. The sheath is Peninsular. Last edited by Gustav; 22nd May 2011 at 10:54 PM.

22nd May 2011, 11:40 PM	#14
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	Hello Gustav, Thanks for the pointers to Sumbawa. I will look further into it tomorrow. The keris has a pamor, but it is barely visible in its current state (certainly not on the pictures i took). I think your impression that gonjo and sorsoran are flattened are due to my poor photographic skills. I will try to make better pictures as soon as i get that hilt off Meanwhile i tried the good old pencil method. Best Regards, Thilo Attached Images

22nd May 2011, 04:52 PM	#1
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	Hello Detlef, Thank you for your comments and the restoration advice. I don't plan to completely remodel this keris. IMHO this would strip the individual character that made me buy it in the first place. Somehow i like those partially broken or imperfect pieces. My plan was to clean the blade but leave the overall ensemble untouched. Well... maybe i will try to carve a replacement buntut to make it a little more "displayable". Best Regards, Thilo

22nd May 2011, 08:25 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	Detlef, I wasn't saying this is an european combo.

22nd May 2011, 09:43 PM	#8
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,273	"And i am also happy to anounce that the modification have been very gently to the original keris. Nothing seems to be filed off, neither from the blade nor from the sheath." ?

22nd May 2011, 10:12 PM	#10
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,165	I know what Gustav mean, the blade look in the sorsoran area very very weird so you can think that it is modified. I guess that it is a Peninsula blade so my hope is that Kai Wee see this thread and can tell us something about this blade. When Thilo has opened the hilt it would be good when he post again some pictures to get a better view from the blade. Regards, Detlef

22nd May 2011, 10:25 PM	#11
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,228	Hello Thilo, I can go a long way with your theory about modification for use in a western slashing style. If the original owner was stationed in Batavia I can imagine that he had it modificated there, explaining the handle. I agree in keeping the piece in its present configuration considering its history. Maybe indeed add a buntut and cleaning /oiling the blade. I hope that maybe other forumites can comment on the blade ? Are there any age indications for this blade ? Best regards, Willem