Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 21st May 2011, 03:38 PM   #1
migueldiaz
Member
 
migueldiaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
Default

Double-edged symmetrical blades with a 'pinched' portion near the hilt, and a 'swollen' part near the tip, are actually common in precolonial Philippines (pre-16th century).

The Boxer Codex painting (1590) shows Zambals of Luzon (northern Philippines) using such a blade. The excavated Cebu blade (central Philippines) shown is likewise precolonial. The subject kris was found in Bohol incidentally, and Bohol is Cebu's neighbor (they speak the same language).

Finally, the blade shown in the other pic is most probably precolonial, too.

Hence the subject kris with a very similar blade profile is very much Filipino in this respect.
Attached Images
   
migueldiaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st May 2011, 03:50 PM   #2
migueldiaz
Member
 
migueldiaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
Default

The other Filipino prehispanic blades have a more regular taper from the guard, to the point. The pic of the lone dagger is from 'nacho'.
Attached Images
  
migueldiaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2011, 02:41 PM   #3
migueldiaz
Member
 
migueldiaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
Default

From Laos/Cambodia/Thailand, we also see a similar blade profile. The pic below (and the ones to follow) are from the book, Images of the Gods: Khmer Mythology in Cambodia, Laos & Thailand.
Attached Images
 
migueldiaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd May 2011, 02:53 PM   #4
migueldiaz
Member
 
migueldiaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
Default

To put the above blade in context, the other blade types that can be seen in those ancient [Thai/Laotian/Cambodian] temples are below. The longer blades, as well as the captions of the daggers shown, can be found in this album.
Attached Images
       
migueldiaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2011, 05:19 PM   #5
migueldiaz
Member
 
migueldiaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Manila, Phils.
Posts: 1,042
Default

Dr. Dizon was kind enough to see me the other day. Here's some of the things he mentioned to me:

[1] on the bent tip of the Visayan kris -- he said that it is a sign that the blade owner willed when he was alive that the blade will be buried with him; bending the tip was a gesture that the blade is not to be used anymore -- in effect, this is another sign to look for when one is assessing the authenticity of an alleged excavated blade; he said that this practice was also done in other regions

[given the practice of ancestral worship then, these desires of the old folks were surely followed to the letter; the success of harvests and business enterprises were believed then to be heavily dependent upon the benevolent intervention of the departed forefathers]

[2] the similarity of the Visayan kris with old Javanese kerises, etc., is not surprising because there were really no borders then amongst what is now Phils., Indo., & Malaysia

[3] he added that blacksmiths then were itinerant, and thus all the more that we should see similarity in designs

[4] as far as artifacts found in ship wrecks in the country are concerned, he said he has never seen a bladed weapon [except for the katanas in the San Diego wreck, 1600, near Batangas] -- his conclusion is that the bladed weapons of ancient Phils. were not imported; we made our own

[5] he has also never seen blade artifacts in the country that are wavy -- all are straight [thus we can tentatively conclude here that the wavy/naga blade is a relatively recent concept]

[6] rather than mining iron ore and then smelting them, it's always easier to recycle old iron or steel as less effort is required

[7] also, as steel gets recycled (and heated and pounded once more to get the slag [impurities] out), all the more that the quality of the steel gets better

[8] thus it was quite popular in the olden days to use "drift iron", i.e., metal coming from various sources and then recycled.
migueldiaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2011, 07:20 PM   #6
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,251
Default

Again thanks Miguel for all the research. It seems to me that this dating from 10th-15th century is a bit wide. Have they been unable to refine this dating a bit given the artifacts found. I personally would find 10th C date unlikely, but could see 15th C date.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th May 2011, 03:30 AM   #7
Spunjer
Member
 
Spunjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Witness Protection Program
Posts: 1,730
Default

"Long Live! Year of Siyaka 822, month of Waisaka, according to astronomy. The fourth day of the waning moon, Monday. On this occasion, Lady Angkatan, and her brother whose name is Buka, the children of the Honourable Namwaran, were awarded a document of complete pardon from the Commander in Chief of Tundun, represented by the Lord Minister of Pailah, Jayadewa.

By this order, through the scribe, the Honourable Namwaran has been forgiven of all and is released from his debts and arrears of 1 katî and 8 suwarna before the Honourable Lord Minister of Puliran, Ka Sumuran by the authority of the Lord Minister of Pailah.

Because of his faithful service as a subject of the Chief, the Honourable and widely renowned Lord Minister of Binwangan recognized all the living relatives of Namwaran who were claimed by the Chief of Dewata, represented by the Chief of Medang.

Yes, therefore the living descendants of the Honourable Namwaran are forgiven, indeed, of any and all debts of the Honourable Namwaran to the Chief of Dewata.

This, in any case, shall declare to whomever henceforth that on some future day should there be a man who claims that no release from the debt of the Honourable... "


that's the translation of the small document pictured below that was hammered on an 8" by 12" copper plate, written in Jawi. curiously, the language used is similar to a mixture of sanskrit, old javanese, old malay, and old tagalog. as a matter of fact, it mentioned a few towns that still exist to this day: Tundun (Tondo), Pailah (Paila), Puliran (Pulilan), and Binwangan, which are in Luzon, the town of Dewata in Mindanao which is not far from where those gold dagger handles pictured above were excavated, and Medang, which is possibly the town of Medan in Sumatra. the date mentioned in that document was later translated to april, 21, 900 A.D. this particular document was found in manila around 1989.

i thought i'd add this in the context of the artifacts posted above...


Quote:
he added that blacksmiths then were itinerant, and thus all the more that we should see similarity in designs
this is very interesting! seems as if the moro pandays of later years were still practicing this, hence we see a lot of cross-tribal blades...
Attached Images
  
Spunjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.