Stunning early kris

Gustav · 14th May 2011, 10:34 PM

There could also be a possibility he acquired the pieces he liked from other soldiers, the krisses are showing taste. It seems to me, it is questionable he got the whole lot in one battle. I think many soldiers were more or less latent collectors.

I copied my speculative and suggestive post from the other thread, just to hold the information together for later:

Here some information from "Indonesian ornamental design" by van der Hoop, 1949, which still is a reference work for this region, and at least the kris hilt is coming from the neighborhood: the whole shape of this panel he calls a "mirror panel", and it is a chinese motif according to him, mostly found with other, like rock and cloud border, in Cirebon. Of course Ming ceramic is full of this kind of panels.

Of course this motif seems to be of Cetral-Asian origin; China absorbed much from the cultures of this region, particularly in the period of Yuan dynasty, many people in the administration at this time were muslims. Later many of chinese seamen, which participated in the great expeditions were muslims, most famous beeing Zheng He. Indonesian scholar Slamet Muljana writes: "Zheng He built Chinese Muslim communities first in Palembang, then in San Fa (West Kalimantan), subsequently he founded similar communities along the shores of Java, the Malay Peninsula and the Philippines. They preached Islam according to the Hanafi school of thought and in Chinese language."

It probably would be a long shot (as Gavin says), yet the origin of the motiv IN the panel could most probably be derived from the tree of life, at least regarding kris hilt.

(The other thread in question: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13789)

Battara · 15th May 2011, 12:55 AM

Vegetable motifs are all over the world. But the okir, a type of vegetable motif, is specific. Interesting though how similarities "crop up" (every pun intended

).

Yes Chris, sadly I remember. Wish I had it - was willing to pay good money for it too (and now the depression sets in

).

Gustav · 15th May 2011, 11:44 AM

Jose,

what are the biggest differences here compared to later okir work, could you please describe them? Thank you

!

Battara · 16th May 2011, 05:07 AM

Well, Sulu okir work became more realistic but Maranao/Maguindanao okir work became more stylized. This is the simplistic version.

mross · 16th May 2011, 03:03 PM

I tried to resist commenting on this, but it is futile.

This is a stunning piece. These types are one of my favorite things to collect. They are few and far between and well worthy of the hunt. I just wish I could stumble on lots the way some of you guys do.

14th May 2011, 10:34 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	There could also be a possibility he acquired the pieces he liked from other soldiers, the krisses are showing taste. It seems to me, it is questionable he got the whole lot in one battle. I think many soldiers were more or less latent collectors. I copied my speculative and suggestive post from the other thread, just to hold the information together for later: Here some information from "Indonesian ornamental design" by van der Hoop, 1949, which still is a reference work for this region, and at least the kris hilt is coming from the neighborhood: the whole shape of this panel he calls a "mirror panel", and it is a chinese motif according to him, mostly found with other, like rock and cloud border, in Cirebon. Of course Ming ceramic is full of this kind of panels. Of course this motif seems to be of Cetral-Asian origin; China absorbed much from the cultures of this region, particularly in the period of Yuan dynasty, many people in the administration at this time were muslims. Later many of chinese seamen, which participated in the great expeditions were muslims, most famous beeing Zheng He. Indonesian scholar Slamet Muljana writes: "Zheng He built Chinese Muslim communities first in Palembang, then in San Fa (West Kalimantan), subsequently he founded similar communities along the shores of Java, the Malay Peninsula and the Philippines. They preached Islam according to the Hanafi school of thought and in Chinese language." It probably would be a long shot (as Gavin says), yet the origin of the motiv IN the panel could most probably be derived from the tree of life, at least regarding kris hilt. (The other thread in question: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=13789) Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 14th May 2011 at 11:46 PM.

15th May 2011, 12:55 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Vegetable motifs are all over the world. But the okir, a type of vegetable motif, is specific. Interesting though how similarities "crop up" (every pun intended ). Yes Chris, sadly I remember. Wish I had it - was willing to pay good money for it too (and now the depression sets in ).

15th May 2011, 11:44 AM	#3
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Jose, what are the biggest differences here compared to later okir work, could you please describe them? Thank you !

16th May 2011, 05:07 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	Well, Sulu okir work became more realistic but Maranao/Maguindanao okir work became more stylized. This is the simplistic version.

16th May 2011, 03:03 PM	#5
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	I tried to resist commenting on this, but it is futile. This is a stunning piece. These types are one of my favorite things to collect. They are few and far between and well worthy of the hunt. I just wish I could stumble on lots the way some of you guys do.