Stunning early kris

Gustav · 12th May 2011, 11:48 PM

There are some interesting features on it. To describe them I am forced to use Javanese terms for Ricikan (features on keris blade), for reference please look at http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisdiagram.html

A very interesting detail is Lambe Gajah, which starts at the upper end of Tampingan and falls in nice curvature: such Lambe Gajah is found on kerisses in early european collections before 1700, later mainly on Balinese keris. I have the impression, on later Javanese keris it often don't start directly at Tampingan or do start lover then upper end of it.

A feature common to most Kris blades are the notches at the front side of Gonjo (under Gandhik) - also found on Javanese blades mainly before 1700 and on Balinese also after.

Why this all? Most probably I am constructing bicycle for the second time

now and this only shows my ignorance, yet have some interest to know, which part of archipelago influenced the origin of Philippines Kris and at what time the it appeared. Clear is, it preserved some arhaic (or better classic) features of Javanese Keris.

Regarding the hilt: has anybody seen something similar, some thoughts on ornamentation? Intriguing is, there is clearly a division in Mendak and Selut, and Selut is resembling Balinese Selut a lot.

Gustav · 13th May 2011, 12:19 AM

Okay, here it is: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=brett

It seems, here are more pictures of it now. Would be very interesting to hear more thoughts and arguments on it.

ThePepperSkull · 13th May 2011, 02:42 AM

Gorgeous piece! Transitional/early Kris are my absolute favourite, especially the half-waved twistcores, and this is a piece definitely worth envy!

(Now I want one of my own even more

)

Does anyone know the regional origin of this piece? I've heard it being discussed as a Sulu piece on this forum, but I'm wondering what indicators are there that clue into it being from Sulu? (I'm wondering... is it the elephant mouth/trunk shape, and the thin/shallow fullers separating the twisted core from the outer edge steel?)

Conversely I could be completely wrong in my recollections and if so, where do pieces like this magnificent example hail from?

Battara · 13th May 2011, 03:10 AM

The Sulu attribution comes from the "elephant" on the ganga and the angle of the mouth opening.

And on the hilt form - it is old and rare but present on some Moro pieces. I have seen only 2 of these on Moro kris and both were made of silver.

ThePepperSkull · 13th May 2011, 04:04 AM

ah, Thanks for the clarification, Jose!

I thought it had something to do with the angle of the "elephant" opening as well.

A follow up question, then: Around the time that this piece was made, were Kris introduced/being made in Mindanao? If so, what did those pieces look like?

Spunjer · 13th May 2011, 06:21 AM

amazing! i can imagine a point in time when this type of kris was en vogue... now, would that be considered as a jawa demam?

Gavin Nugent · 13th May 2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

now, would that be considered as a jawa demam?

I certainly would think so, and surrounded by magic!!!

Battara · 13th May 2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

ah, Thanks for the clarification, Jose!

I thought it had something to do with the angle of the "elephant" opening as well.

A follow up question, then: Around the time that this piece was made, were Kris introduced/being made in Mindanao? If so, what did those pieces look like?

Your welcome.

You ask a good question. Unfortunately I don't have a good answer.

Gustav · 13th May 2011, 09:26 PM

It seems to me, the only way at least partially to answer these questions (which are also mine questions from #4) is to analyse several details on blade, which are more or less proved regarding the time of their appearance - for this one should be knowledgable in Javanese keris, especially in Tangguh system and in keris from old european collections.

and analyse the ornamentics on hilt, find analog features, which are in some form bound to a time frame. I think we have the most gratifying object here for such analysis before us.

12th May 2011, 11:48 PM	#1
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	There are some interesting features on it. To describe them I am forced to use Javanese terms for Ricikan (features on keris blade), for reference please look at http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisdiagram.html A very interesting detail is Lambe Gajah, which starts at the upper end of Tampingan and falls in nice curvature: such Lambe Gajah is found on kerisses in early european collections before 1700, later mainly on Balinese keris. I have the impression, on later Javanese keris it often don't start directly at Tampingan or do start lover then upper end of it. A feature common to most Kris blades are the notches at the front side of Gonjo (under Gandhik) - also found on Javanese blades mainly before 1700 and on Balinese also after. Why this all? Most probably I am constructing bicycle for the second time now and this only shows my ignorance, yet have some interest to know, which part of archipelago influenced the origin of Philippines Kris and at what time the it appeared. Clear is, it preserved some arhaic (or better classic) features of Javanese Keris. Regarding the hilt: has anybody seen something similar, some thoughts on ornamentation? Intriguing is, there is clearly a division in Mendak and Selut, and Selut is resembling Balinese Selut a lot.

13th May 2011, 12:19 AM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Okay, here it is: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=brett It seems, here are more pictures of it now. Would be very interesting to hear more thoughts and arguments on it.

13th May 2011, 02:42 AM	#3
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	Gorgeous piece! Transitional/early Kris are my absolute favourite, especially the half-waved twistcores, and this is a piece definitely worth envy! (Now I want one of my own even more ) Does anyone know the regional origin of this piece? I've heard it being discussed as a Sulu piece on this forum, but I'm wondering what indicators are there that clue into it being from Sulu? (I'm wondering... is it the elephant mouth/trunk shape, and the thin/shallow fullers separating the twisted core from the outer edge steel?) Conversely I could be completely wrong in my recollections and if so, where do pieces like this magnificent example hail from?

13th May 2011, 03:10 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,310	The Sulu attribution comes from the "elephant" on the ganga and the angle of the mouth opening. And on the hilt form - it is old and rare but present on some Moro pieces. I have seen only 2 of these on Moro kris and both were made of silver.

13th May 2011, 04:04 AM	#5
ThePepperSkull Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 338	ah, Thanks for the clarification, Jose! I thought it had something to do with the angle of the "elephant" opening as well. A follow up question, then: Around the time that this piece was made, were Kris introduced/being made in Mindanao? If so, what did those pieces look like?

13th May 2011, 06:21 AM	#6
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	amazing! i can imagine a point in time when this type of kris was en vogue... now, would that be considered as a jawa demam?

13th May 2011, 09:26 PM	#9
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	It seems to me, the only way at least partially to answer these questions (which are also mine questions from #4) is to analyse several details on blade, which are more or less proved regarding the time of their appearance - for this one should be knowledgable in Javanese keris, especially in Tangguh system and in keris from old european collections. and analyse the ornamentics on hilt, find analog features, which are in some form bound to a time frame. I think we have the most gratifying object here for such analysis before us.