Chamba short sword for comment

Iain · 18th April 2011, 10:29 AM

Thanks Tim, I also appreciate the practical nature of this weapon. To perhaps stimulate a little more discussion, I'm attaching another photo illustrating better the size of the hilt. I have reasonably large hands but it is still a reasonable fit.

The shape of the pommel, due to the rounded and tapered base, works quite well in the palm. I've found this with takouba as well and it seems quite intentional.

Jim McDougall · 18th April 2011, 04:44 PM

Hi Iain,
Thank you for the photo of this fascinating sword in the hand, that indeed adds great perspective. So often seeing weapons illustrated without context gives distorted views of thier actual size.

The blade on this is most interesting with its median ridge, and that it is essentially a sabre type blade with a curious uptick at the point. While I cannot offer a great deal of direct suggestion as to possible associations at this point, I have seen a similar presence of this feature elsewhere. In studying the 'uptick' on the blade of espada anchas in Spanish colonial setting I was once told this was for thrust and upward cut. While certainly these espadas are outside the sphere with reference to this Chamba weapon, it is notable that the Spanish influences from Moroccan regions certainly were carried to Spains America's.

Looking into earlier history in North Africa, it has long been established that weapons and influences were deeply ingrained in long standing native traditions from these times. Looking at the downturned quillons on the crossguard one cannot discount recalling this feature on the Jineta or Hispano-Moresque swords of medieval times. Returning to the uptick on the blade, certainly not a feature from this context where broadswords were used, it seems I have seen it on examples of Moroccan/Algerian sa'if (often termed nim'cha).

Although these are essentially Moroccan influences I am citing, the well established trade routes moving southward into these regions would have easily been present in Chamba regions just as these networks were ever present throughout North Africa. As always, admittedly free association only without further corroborating evidence with other examples, we can always hope to find other clues supporting or disputing these suggestions.

These are my thoughts prompted by this definitely thought provoking anomaly, and I really look forward to hearing others!!!

All best regards,
Jim

Iain · 19th April 2011, 10:20 PM

Hi Jim,

Few points I can add which may help explain the blade form. First, it's sharp on both sides. A bit odd for what is essentially a sabre. Second, the tip is also sharp, despite that fact that it's rounded.

The Chamba had cavalry (at least I've found reference to it) however like most Sahel armies the bulk would be foot soldiers. Shield and spear would have been the usual kit but I think a sword like this would fit perfectly for this style of warfare. In close, that little uptick would work rather well in a thrust from behind a shield. Alternatively due to the double edge the 'hook' could be quite effective in pulling a shield. Just a couple quick thoughts about how it may be there for a practical reason.

I've yet to see images of another Chamba sword (except for one other similar hilt but the overall view was not available). I was hoping someone else here would own one.

Best,

Iain

18th April 2011, 10:29 AM	#1
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	Thanks Tim, I also appreciate the practical nature of this weapon. To perhaps stimulate a little more discussion, I'm attaching another photo illustrating better the size of the hilt. I have reasonably large hands but it is still a reasonable fit. The shape of the pommel, due to the rounded and tapered base, works quite well in the palm. I've found this with takouba as well and it seems quite intentional. Attached Images

18th April 2011, 04:44 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,190	Hi Iain, Thank you for the photo of this fascinating sword in the hand, that indeed adds great perspective. So often seeing weapons illustrated without context gives distorted views of thier actual size. The blade on this is most interesting with its median ridge, and that it is essentially a sabre type blade with a curious uptick at the point. While I cannot offer a great deal of direct suggestion as to possible associations at this point, I have seen a similar presence of this feature elsewhere. In studying the 'uptick' on the blade of espada anchas in Spanish colonial setting I was once told this was for thrust and upward cut. While certainly these espadas are outside the sphere with reference to this Chamba weapon, it is notable that the Spanish influences from Moroccan regions certainly were carried to Spains America's. Looking into earlier history in North Africa, it has long been established that weapons and influences were deeply ingrained in long standing native traditions from these times. Looking at the downturned quillons on the crossguard one cannot discount recalling this feature on the Jineta or Hispano-Moresque swords of medieval times. Returning to the uptick on the blade, certainly not a feature from this context where broadswords were used, it seems I have seen it on examples of Moroccan/Algerian sa'if (often termed nim'cha). Although these are essentially Moroccan influences I am citing, the well established trade routes moving southward into these regions would have easily been present in Chamba regions just as these networks were ever present throughout North Africa. As always, admittedly free association only without further corroborating evidence with other examples, we can always hope to find other clues supporting or disputing these suggestions. These are my thoughts prompted by this definitely thought provoking anomaly, and I really look forward to hearing others!!! All best regards, Jim

19th April 2011, 10:20 PM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	Hi Jim, Few points I can add which may help explain the blade form. First, it's sharp on both sides. A bit odd for what is essentially a sabre. Second, the tip is also sharp, despite that fact that it's rounded. The Chamba had cavalry (at least I've found reference to it) however like most Sahel armies the bulk would be foot soldiers. Shield and spear would have been the usual kit but I think a sword like this would fit perfectly for this style of warfare. In close, that little uptick would work rather well in a thrust from behind a shield. Alternatively due to the double edge the 'hook' could be quite effective in pulling a shield. Just a couple quick thoughts about how it may be there for a practical reason. I've yet to see images of another Chamba sword (except for one other similar hilt but the overall view was not available). I was hoping someone else here would own one. Best, Iain