my favorite rapier

fernando · 17th April 2011, 08:00 AM

Just a little note, Jim

.
It looks as the word inscribed in the blade is actually CAVALO; only Jasper has read it (or spelled it) wrong

.
Am i correct, Jasper ?

cornelistromp · 17th April 2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando

Just a little note, Jim

.
It looks as the word inscribed in the blade is actually CAVALO; only Jasper has read it (or spelled it) wrong

.
Am i correct, Jasper ?

Hi Fernando and Jim,

yes it is CAVALO, I misspelled it because when you pronounce cavalo, the L sounds like a I.

best,
Jasper

Jim McDougall · 17th April 2011, 05:03 PM

Its amazing what a simple error or omission can do in communication, in this case a simple letter, however this is exactly the kind of situations which permeate the weapons world much as any other. Transliteration and semantics have often steered accounts and understanding far off course.
However, in this case the suggestions still stand, we are still talking about the term 'seahorse' and how its application to this blade might be intended.

This phonetic spelling is exactly what I noted in my text, and the presumption that it might lead to Solingen was simplistic at best, but this situation has been seen profoundly in so many instances of blades known from there. Naturally spelling variations occurred constantly and these kinds of clues often are helpful in determining more on the words or inscriptions on swords.

Getting back to this rapier, it would seem that it has been reaffirmed in Italian context, but the question remains, why the seahorse term? Dmitrys suggestion for a unit of cavalry for San Marino, especially with a sword of such similarity held in that location was well reasoned and well placed.
However, again, these kinds of designations are seldom, if ever placed in the fullers of these blades.

While the seahorse is of course a nautical theme, its figure and character is likely to be present in other representations and allusions, especially in a heraldic sense. The maritime city states in Italy of course were nautical in primary sense, however they were with armies and presence in the regular parlance as well.

The term in the blade fuller remains a mystery but it is interesting trying different ideas to understand what it might mean. As always, strong possibility for the words being an allusion, term or expression intended to suggest the character or quality imbued in the blade. What would really be great would be finding another blade with these words!

It seems the sword type itself is pretty well established in Italy by the end of the 15th century, and these type features were used into the early 17th c

******Cerca Trova!*******

cornelistromp · 14th October 2014, 04:42 PM

example from musee de lármee

fernando · 14th October 2014, 05:30 PM

Some resemblance between this hilt and your favourite, indeed.
... But yours is more elaborated .

cornelistromp · 14th October 2014, 06:38 PM

Hi Fernando,
yes it is also a bit heavier version, and earlier, compared to the one in Paris.

best,
jasper

fernando · 15th October 2014, 04:57 PM

Yeah ... i remember the cavalo marinho riddle ... and confessing i envy you for the possession of such examle. I wouldn't mind to have it as my favorite either

.

17th April 2011, 05:03 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,191	Its amazing what a simple error or omission can do in communication, in this case a simple letter, however this is exactly the kind of situations which permeate the weapons world much as any other. Transliteration and semantics have often steered accounts and understanding far off course. However, in this case the suggestions still stand, we are still talking about the term 'seahorse' and how its application to this blade might be intended. This phonetic spelling is exactly what I noted in my text, and the presumption that it might lead to Solingen was simplistic at best, but this situation has been seen profoundly in so many instances of blades known from there. Naturally spelling variations occurred constantly and these kinds of clues often are helpful in determining more on the words or inscriptions on swords. Getting back to this rapier, it would seem that it has been reaffirmed in Italian context, but the question remains, why the seahorse term? Dmitrys suggestion for a unit of cavalry for San Marino, especially with a sword of such similarity held in that location was well reasoned and well placed. However, again, these kinds of designations are seldom, if ever placed in the fullers of these blades. While the seahorse is of course a nautical theme, its figure and character is likely to be present in other representations and allusions, especially in a heraldic sense. The maritime city states in Italy of course were nautical in primary sense, however they were with armies and presence in the regular parlance as well. The term in the blade fuller remains a mystery but it is interesting trying different ideas to understand what it might mean. As always, strong possibility for the words being an allusion, term or expression intended to suggest the character or quality imbued in the blade. What would really be great would be finding another blade with these words! It seems the sword type itself is pretty well established in Italy by the end of the 15th century, and these type features were used into the early 17th c ****Cerca Trova!***** Last edited by Jim McDougall; 17th April 2011 at 05:14 PM.

14th October 2014, 04:42 PM	#4
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	example from musee de lármee Attached Images

14th October 2014, 06:38 PM	#6
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	Hi Fernando, yes it is also a bit heavier version, and earlier, compared to the one in Paris. best, jasper Attached Images

17th April 2011, 08:00 AM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Just a little note, Jim . It looks as the word inscribed in the blade is actually CAVALO; only Jasper has read it (or spelled it) wrong . Am i correct, Jasper ?

14th October 2014, 05:30 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Some resemblance between this hilt and your favourite, indeed. ... But yours is more elaborated .

15th October 2014, 04:57 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Yeah ... i remember the cavalo marinho riddle ... and confessing i envy you for the possession of such examle. I wouldn't mind to have it as my favorite either .