Knife with interesting markings - Ebay

Robert · 6th April 2011, 03:30 AM

The sun and triangle symbol was a common enough even being used on stamps, see picture below. Like Rick I'm interested in the trumpet emblem with the 3 in it. As of yet I have not been able to find any information on this particular emblem but I'm still looking. I have been told though that it is not Filipino in origin.

Robert

Rick · 6th April 2011, 03:45 AM

Not 3rd Infantry .
They were formed in 1917 .

Battara · 6th April 2011, 03:51 AM

I saw this and (besides the lack of bling) the badge threw me off. I wonder if this is a composite piece, as in the badge was added later by a GI or even later.

Ferguson · 6th April 2011, 07:18 AM

Good discussion! The badge could have been added by anyone, at any time. The 3rd U.S. Cavalry served in the Philippine American War, but I have no idea what their insignia was. Badge aside, could the bolo have come from the early 1900s?
Steve

David · 6th April 2011, 01:02 PM

The 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment was formed in 1846 and probably did serve in the Philippines, though the Wiki article on them has a hole in it for that period. You will notice though that their insignia does indeed include a trumpet and the number 3.
They were nicknamed "The Brave Rifles" and their motto is "Blood and Steel".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3d_Armored_Cavalry_Regiment_(United_States)

David · 6th April 2011, 01:13 PM

This is their current insignia, but i am certain that the design would have been different back then, though it still probably maintained the same elements like the bugle.

David · 6th April 2011, 01:15 PM

Also the symbol on the reverse side from the triangle and sun looks like a cavalry flag, does it not?

Battara · 6th April 2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

The sun and triangle symbol was a common enough even being used on stamps, see picture below.

Now on the subject of the triangle, this stamp shows the emblem of the 1st PI Republic. I think the blade is authentic, but the rest altered?

David · 6th April 2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Now on the subject of the triangle, this stamp shows the emblem of the 1st PI Republic. I think the blade is authentic, but the rest altered?

Probably not fair to say that the rest is not "authentic". It looks to me (and of course with not real provenance who is to say for sure) that this is a PI blade that fell into the hands of a 3rd cavalry soldier who then made it his own with the additions. Maybe it was a battle score. Maybe it was a gift or trade. Maybe he just bought it as a remembrance of the time, but i still read that as a very "authentic" piece of history.

Ferguson · 6th April 2011, 04:21 PM

A little more research reveals that the "looped horn" or bugle is the symbol for a "Field Musician" (bugler). The 3 could mean 3rd U.S. Infantry, Artillery, or Cavalry. All served in the Philippine American war.

I haven't found a definitive example of the insignia yet.

Steve

Spunjer · 6th April 2011, 04:48 PM

There's a sun face/triangle on the scabbard as well, so yeah, i'm pretty sure everything is original with the piece. Also remember, the bugle/No. 3 combo could represent a spanish unit..

Battara · 6th April 2011, 06:50 PM

David, I don't disagree that this is a battlefield pick up. What I meant was that the badge was later added altering the piece. It is a Civil War form of badge that was used in later wars, like the PI/American War.

I apologize for any confusion.

Dimasalang · 6th April 2011, 11:40 PM

Agree with Ron. The Bugler badge could of been from a Spanish unit. Possibly captured from a Spanish unit during the 1st or 2nd phase of the 1896 Revolution. Also, many Spanish soldiers stayed in the Philippines after the revolution and switched sides to fight under Aguinaldos military against the Americans.
And if the bugler emblem can be traced back to be American, it could of been captured from an American unit as well. Obviously, many soldiers on all sides were capturing and saving military artifacts from one another.

I would like to think the emblem was captured from the enemy and used as the owners "anting anting". Well, at least that is the story I would tell people.

6th April 2011, 03:30 AM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	The sun and triangle symbol was a common enough even being used on stamps, see picture below. Like Rick I'm interested in the trumpet emblem with the 3 in it. As of yet I have not been able to find any information on this particular emblem but I'm still looking. I have been told though that it is not Filipino in origin. Robert Attached Images

6th April 2011, 01:13 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	This is their current insignia, but i am certain that the design would have been different back then, though it still probably maintained the same elements like the bugle. Attached Images

6th April 2011, 03:45 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Not 3rd Infantry . They were formed in 1917 .

6th April 2011, 03:51 AM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I saw this and (besides the lack of bling) the badge threw me off. I wonder if this is a composite piece, as in the badge was added later by a GI or even later.

6th April 2011, 07:18 AM	#4
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Good discussion! The badge could have been added by anyone, at any time. The 3rd U.S. Cavalry served in the Philippine American War, but I have no idea what their insignia was. Badge aside, could the bolo have come from the early 1900s? Steve

6th April 2011, 01:02 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	The 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment was formed in 1846 and probably did serve in the Philippines, though the Wiki article on them has a hole in it for that period. You will notice though that their insignia does indeed include a trumpet and the number 3. They were nicknamed "The Brave Rifles" and their motto is "Blood and Steel". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3d_Armored_Cavalry_Regiment_(United_States)

6th April 2011, 01:15 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Also the symbol on the reverse side from the triangle and sun looks like a cavalry flag, does it not?

6th April 2011, 04:21 PM	#10
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	A little more research reveals that the "looped horn" or bugle is the symbol for a "Field Musician" (bugler). The 3 could mean 3rd U.S. Infantry, Artillery, or Cavalry. All served in the Philippine American war. I haven't found a definitive example of the insignia yet. Steve

6th April 2011, 04:48 PM	#11
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	There's a sun face/triangle on the scabbard as well, so yeah, i'm pretty sure everything is original with the piece. Also remember, the bugle/No. 3 combo could represent a spanish unit..

6th April 2011, 06:50 PM	#12
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	David, I don't disagree that this is a battlefield pick up. What I meant was that the badge was later added altering the piece. It is a Civil War form of badge that was used in later wars, like the PI/American War. I apologize for any confusion.

6th April 2011, 11:40 PM	#13
Dimasalang Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 264	Agree with Ron. The Bugler badge could of been from a Spanish unit. Possibly captured from a Spanish unit during the 1st or 2nd phase of the 1896 Revolution. Also, many Spanish soldiers stayed in the Philippines after the revolution and switched sides to fight under Aguinaldos military against the Americans. And if the bugler emblem can be traced back to be American, it could of been captured from an American unit as well. Obviously, many soldiers on all sides were capturing and saving military artifacts from one another. I would like to think the emblem was captured from the enemy and used as the owners "anting anting". Well, at least that is the story I would tell people.