European (Italian?) Dagger

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Nando,,
I agree with you and Alan, this does look like a cut down rapier blade, and of the section often seen on both Spanish and Italian rapiers c. 1680s. I have always been under the impression these were being produced in Solingen for Spanish market and often used spurious names and phrases, such as 'JESUS' MARIA' I have seen on some. These same type blades are found on Italian rapiers (as noted c.1680s) and are seen in Boccia& Coelho.

I believe this dagger is probably 19th century in mounts, and reflects neoclassic styling and symbolism with the acanthus leaves, trefoil (clover) and the cross pattee. It is of Italian style recalling mid 17th form (Boccia & Coelho #617-620).

These central fuller blades from rapiers seem to have been widely distributed and in trade late into the 18th century. I believe the reason for this is that highly tradition gentry, especially the Spanish, remounted these blades not only in smallswords but in the long use of the earlier rapiers.

I searched as well for 'FRANZINI" but really found nothing either, though the name Franchini does come up c.1490 in a maker of Italian polearm heads.
Many of these names and words both Italian and Spanish were used spuriously by German makers. What Alan notes on names that occurred over long periods of time is right, often these were families which became firms and many individual workers were involved. This is the reason that accounts for such wide variation in makers marks and guild marks.

Regarding Ferrara, this is very much the case, in fact it is widely doubted that Ferrara actually even refers to a single maker and is more likely a term which is applied as a 'brand' or style for a blade destined to particular market. For example, on Scottish broadswords the 'ANDREA FERRARA' was very much favored by the Scots, and the word Andrew (It. Andrea) meant loosely 'true' or 'reliable' while Ferrara obviously Lat. for iron (steel). In Solingen these markings were placed on the blades accordingly, while other terms/names were used as well, i.e. Sahagum. I am wondering if perhaps 'Franzini' may have been applied in the channel of this rapier blade which is of the trade type and perhaps in this sense, for Italian market. It is known there was an interchange between Germany/Italy and Spain in this commerce.

Could we see close ups of the other markings for more clues? In the meantime I would say this is a 19th century dagger using a probably early 18th century blade in neoclassic mounts with blade cut down accordingly.My only other note would be that the blade seems to almost widen slightly reflecting an almost spatulate look, or maybe its just the perspective.

Ok OK another treatise I know!!!!

All the best,
JIm

[A Senefelder]

I believe, from my short time around this forum that this is why Jim is " the man " so much of the time.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by A Senefelder

I believe, from my short time around this forum that this is why Jim is " the man " so much of the time.

Thank you Alan, not really though, its just that I love to research, learn, and try to share what I find. Its all about the search, and the most fun is when everybody really digs in and finds answers. You'll see that often old threads pop up when something is found...its all case NEVER closed and always finding new evidence!

For example, still looking on this one.

This dagger is virtually 'of the style' of Italian pugnale's of late 17th and well into the 18th as I found in the "Arms and Armour Annual" (ed. Robert Held, 1973). In an article on what are known as 'fusetti' or 'bombardier stilettos' which were thin bladed daggers with graduated scales on the blades the exact same hilt configuration is seen.Often these were carried by assassins as in those times only these military gunners were allowed these stilettos, which had been outlawed as insidious weapons earlier.
The baroque motif and symbols which allude to possible secret society or fraternal association along with the acanthus leaves suggest Victorian period gentry oriented classicism. While the blade suggests it is Italian, it would seem that the attraction to things Italian in England in fashion, literature etc. would have made this particular dagger with somewhat sinister allusions even more attractive.

These are my observations so far, and as always, I very much look forward to the views of others.

All the best,
Jim

[A Senefelder]

Thank you Alan, not really though,

Humility is a timeless gauge of a gentleman.

Its all about the search, and the most fun is when everybody really digs in and finds answers.

This is what i'm quickly comming to discover as I travel into the uncharted territory ( for me ) of ethnographics. It was what first drew me into militaria when I was a kid ( Dads to blame for getting me started ) and still holds its allure today.

I believe the blade has been cut down as Fernando notes about the fuller reaching nearly the tip of the blade. It also seems to teminate deep inside the quillon block as it exhibits no signs of tappering where it enters. While fullers could continue slightly inside the block generally they're tappering away, this fuller seems to be continuing in uniform width when it enters the block ( the fuller of the composite sword I posted earlier is defintely narrowing at the point where the shoulder of the original guard would have been by way of example ).

[Spunjer]

i think you nail it on the head, jim! what he forgot to mentioned was a bunch of obscure letters on the other side of the blade. barely legible. see here:



the name "CLAUDIO" matches! so it could be "CLAUDIO FRANZINI" like you mentioned

and here are the maker's marks:



close up of the tip:

[Spunjer]

here are the dimensions:



and finally, close ups of the crossguard and hilt:

[Atlantia]

Similar blade with short fuller:





I would say that this is how your blade started.
Visible fuller length beyond cup/guard on my sword is 10".
I would place the date of the reconstruction to possibly end of the 18thC but more likey early 19thC (as Jim said).
Despite the fact that this is made from a reclaimed blade, I think that it is of rather good quality. The mounts remind me of the Napoleonic era. There is an almost naval dirk look to the whole piece also.
Rather interesting.

[Jim McDougall]

Just found a reference (T. Del Mar sale, 332, 2007, #216) a boys swept hilt rapier, early 17th century signed Claudio Franzini. The blade was around 36" and the central fuller terminates similar to this, however the forte block is different and is not intersected by the fuller as seen on this blade of our example.

I think more support that the Franzini name was probably known and perhaps used in the Solingen blades. On the blade sold in the auction it states the name appears between decorative marks but could not see them in the photo

In the fuller on the dagger posted here it seems like I see an O in the inscription. Also toward the end of the fuller what looks like a cursive M, can we find more on the full markings and names ?.

[Spunjer]

i will take pictures of details, jim. thank you!