Den Pasar Museum

VANDOO · 8th March 2011, 05:24 PM

HOPEFULLY WHAT IS ALREADY THERE AT THE MUSEUM WILL REMAIN THE SAME AND PERHAPS THEY WILL ADD A INSIDE DISPLAY AREA WITH ARTEFACTS THAT NEED MORE CARE AND PROTECTION.
ONE OF THE THINGS I LIKE ABOUT BALI IS THERE ARE NO DEAD SHRINES THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO PUTS FLOWERS OR OFFERINGS ON THEM ALL, USUALLY EVERY DAY. THOUGH THE BUILDINGS MAY BE A MUSEUM DISPLAY THEY STILL LIVE IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE AND OFFERNINGS ARE NO DOUBT MADE TO THE SPIRITS OF THE LAND AND TO THE SHRINES. BALI IS A VERY SPIRITUAL PLACE AS WELL AS A VERY EARTHLY ONE.

THANKS FOR THE PICTURES IT BRINGS BACK MEMORIES AND MAKES ME WANT TO RETURN FOR A VISIT.

kulbuntet · 8th March 2011, 07:06 PM

Pak Alan,

Did you see in your visit to the museum a bali wedung? One like i did post here about a year ago? You thought the name could be pentaga, but you were not sure about it. I hope you maybe seen one there, and that you maybe could remeber the information given by the museum.

Regards,

Michel

A. G. Maisey · 8th March 2011, 09:02 PM

Michel, there is a photo of one of these little axes on page two, and I'm posting it here also.

The display tag reads "tiuk pengentas, for cutting covering corpse"

The name I gave in response to your original query was "pengantas", I was running on memory, and I made an error.

"tiuk" is Balinese for "knife", so this is a pengentas knife. I do not know the meaning of "pengentas", but it has been explained to me that at a funeral procession one of these knives precedes the procession.

This form is only one of the styles that have the same name, I have seen, and owned, other Balinese knives and axes that had the same name.

Michel, I appreciate your courtesy, but there really is no need to use "Pak" when you address me. I'm not Indonesian, and this is an English language forum, so we use the rules of English language etiquette, which do not include addressing somebody as Mr. (pak) + given name.

When I'm in Indonesia it would offend me if somebody younger or of inferior status did not use "Pak" when they addressed me, but on this forum, we are not in Indonesia.

Gavin Nugent · 8th March 2011, 11:23 PM

If Agreed I can supply images of these knives leading and being used in a funeral ceremony, also many Keris in the procession too.

I took the crowded journey and many images of the ceremony in Ubud during my stay, I was told by locals it was the biggest ceremony in a very long time.

If improper, please let me know and I will refrain.

Gav

A. G. Maisey · 9th March 2011, 12:19 AM

In my opinion this would not be at all improper.

I do not understand the Balinese language, but I have been present at a couple of cremations, and the comments that have been interpreted for me have not been in the slightest degree respectful of the corpse.

To my understanding there is a clear distinction between the corpse, which is merely a vehicle, and the person who has passed, which is the spirit.

Actually there are quite a lot of photos of Balinese cremation on the net. If you google "balinese cremation" you'll get more images than you know what to do with.

kulbuntet · 20th March 2011, 08:45 PM

Alan,

Thank you for your reaction. I have seen the bigger ones few times here in Holland. They are used for funerals, thats right. But the smaller ones are difrent weapon/usage. Some one in Bali Den Pasar, just told me it's named Tiuk Temutik, does this sound familiair to anny body? In a quick search on the net, i can not find anny info about this. I pm the person in Bali, for extra info about this, when i get more info i wil post this here.

Regards,

A. G. Maisey · 20th March 2011, 10:30 PM

As I said, I don't speak Balinese, however, tiuk means knife, temutik I don't know, but possibly from "utik" which is twisted coconut husk fibre.

I have had a number of smaller knives over the years that are called tiuk --- or piso --- pemutik, and that are used for all sorts of small detail jobs

Battara · 22nd March 2011, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

If Agreed I can supply images of these knives leading and being used in a funeral ceremony, also many Keris in the procession too.

Gav, I would love for you to post pictures of these and their context. I love ceremonial pieces and have a Balinese ceremonial axe, pierced and silvered, and would love to see the context from which it comes.

Gavin Nugent · 26th March 2011, 02:39 PM

As promised...delays with mum being in hospital and kids being sick, that and the hundreds of photos to choose from, here are 22 images. Not all have the knives in them but it is a rough order of events without getting caught up on too much detail.
Look close at a few images and you'll see others with these in their hands or tucked in belts.

Gav

Gavin Nugent · 26th March 2011, 02:42 PM

More images of the ceremony.

8th March 2011, 09:02 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	Michel, there is a photo of one of these little axes on page two, and I'm posting it here also. The display tag reads "tiuk pengentas, for cutting covering corpse" The name I gave in response to your original query was "pengantas", I was running on memory, and I made an error. "tiuk" is Balinese for "knife", so this is a pengentas knife. I do not know the meaning of "pengentas", but it has been explained to me that at a funeral procession one of these knives precedes the procession. This form is only one of the styles that have the same name, I have seen, and owned, other Balinese knives and axes that had the same name. Michel, I appreciate your courtesy, but there really is no need to use "Pak" when you address me. I'm not Indonesian, and this is an English language forum, so we use the rules of English language etiquette, which do not include addressing somebody as Mr. (pak) + given name. When I'm in Indonesia it would offend me if somebody younger or of inferior status did not use "Pak" when they addressed me, but on this forum, we are not in Indonesia. Attached Images

8th March 2011, 11:23 PM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	If agreed If Agreed I can supply images of these knives leading and being used in a funeral ceremony, also many Keris in the procession too. I took the crowded journey and many images of the ceremony in Ubud during my stay, I was told by locals it was the biggest ceremony in a very long time. If improper, please let me know and I will refrain. Gav

9th March 2011, 12:19 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	In my opinion this would not be at all improper. I do not understand the Balinese language, but I have been present at a couple of cremations, and the comments that have been interpreted for me have not been in the slightest degree respectful of the corpse. To my understanding there is a clear distinction between the corpse, which is merely a vehicle, and the person who has passed, which is the spirit. Actually there are quite a lot of photos of Balinese cremation on the net. If you google "balinese cremation" you'll get more images than you know what to do with. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 9th March 2011 at 12:34 AM.

26th March 2011, 02:39 PM	#9
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Images As promised...delays with mum being in hospital and kids being sick, that and the hundreds of photos to choose from, here are 22 images. Not all have the knives in them but it is a rough order of events without getting caught up on too much detail. Look close at a few images and you'll see others with these in their hands or tucked in belts. Gav Attached Images

26th March 2011, 02:42 PM	#10
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	More More images of the ceremony. Attached Images

8th March 2011, 05:24 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	HOPEFULLY WHAT IS ALREADY THERE AT THE MUSEUM WILL REMAIN THE SAME AND PERHAPS THEY WILL ADD A INSIDE DISPLAY AREA WITH ARTEFACTS THAT NEED MORE CARE AND PROTECTION. ONE OF THE THINGS I LIKE ABOUT BALI IS THERE ARE NO DEAD SHRINES THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE WHO PUTS FLOWERS OR OFFERINGS ON THEM ALL, USUALLY EVERY DAY. THOUGH THE BUILDINGS MAY BE A MUSEUM DISPLAY THEY STILL LIVE IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE AND OFFERNINGS ARE NO DOUBT MADE TO THE SPIRITS OF THE LAND AND TO THE SHRINES. BALI IS A VERY SPIRITUAL PLACE AS WELL AS A VERY EARTHLY ONE. THANKS FOR THE PICTURES IT BRINGS BACK MEMORIES AND MAKES ME WANT TO RETURN FOR A VISIT.

8th March 2011, 07:06 PM	#2
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Pak Alan, Did you see in your visit to the museum a bali wedung? One like i did post here about a year ago? You thought the name could be pentaga, but you were not sure about it. I hope you maybe seen one there, and that you maybe could remeber the information given by the museum. Regards, Michel

20th March 2011, 08:45 PM	#6
kulbuntet Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands Posts: 159	Alan, Thank you for your reaction. I have seen the bigger ones few times here in Holland. They are used for funerals, thats right. But the smaller ones are difrent weapon/usage. Some one in Bali Den Pasar, just told me it's named Tiuk Temutik, does this sound familiair to anny body? In a quick search on the net, i can not find anny info about this. I pm the person in Bali, for extra info about this, when i get more info i wil post this here. Regards,

20th March 2011, 10:30 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,990	As I said, I don't speak Balinese, however, tiuk means knife, temutik I don't know, but possibly from "utik" which is twisted coconut husk fibre. I have had a number of smaller knives over the years that are called tiuk --- or piso --- pemutik, and that are used for all sorts of small detail jobs