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25th February 2011, 09:02 PM
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#1 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Absolutely great research, Alexander!
  I would never have generally ruled out the early existence of iron ramrods for heavier pieces, and I am glad to be able and prove your discovered contemporary artwork by two really existing wrought iron crudely sighted haquebut barrels, both possibly Nuremberg made, about 1500-10, ans struck with a maker's mark, a shield with some pellets, the swiveling touch hole cover of one missing, the latter barrel heavily damaged and broken in two in the middle, and both retaining their iron ramrods characteristically bent outside the muzzles in order to prevent them from going in too far - just the way Alexander found them illustrated!  Both are preserved in the Museum of a small Northern Bavaria country town named Wunsiedel, where I took photos of them amost 30 years ago! As 'Nando pointed out, I would however like to reemphasize the fact that iron ramrods were the exemption to the rule until the early 18th century. The Landeszeughaus Graz preserved hundreds of separate thick wooden ramrods mounted with iron finials threaded for screwing in cleaining tools for their mid 16th c. wall guns (Doppenhaken), and the huge 35 kilograms of weight Nuremberg bronze Doppelhaken of ca. 1520 in my collection (posted here earlier) also retains its original fir wood ramrod (repaired in places), its iron finial retaining its original cleaning tool. Best, Michael |
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1st March 2011, 01:22 PM
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#2 |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Russia, Leningrad
Posts: 355
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Hello, Michael! Thank You for your comment and this beautifull photos! I think that hooks of ramrods from your photos has slightly straightened (the hooks are not full but I thinks that it was full). And else I think that it is not for cleaning. It is absolutly clear becaurse this hooks are much bigger than the calibre.
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3rd March 2011, 09:05 AM
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#3 | |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Quote:
Hello Alexander, Actually it's my turn to thank you for both your great and scientifically important discovery of identifying iron ramrods as a hitherto by far neglected means of loading firearms as early as the 15th century, and for your hint that the hook shaped bent finials of the two existing ramrods I photographed were obviously slightly re-bent at some later time. Best wishes, Michael |
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14th March 2011, 08:42 PM
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Russia, Leningrad
Posts: 355
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Ramrod with hook else:
Giovanni Battini, c1460. Bodleian Library, Oxford, MS Canon Class Lat. 81, fol. 49v. |
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14th March 2011, 09:14 PM
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#5 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Absolutely superb find, Alexander!
I would be a very lonely guy on the forum without your brilliant inputs! Our minds sure are two of a kind. If there is a higher resolution available, please email me! Best, Michael |
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14th March 2011, 09:44 PM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Russia, Leningrad
Posts: 355
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unfortunately, I have not higher resolution version. This picture found one good man from russian historic forum. He has not highres too
 But I still find it
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14th March 2011, 11:23 PM
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#7 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
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Ha, the encountering of two geniuses
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15th March 2011, 12:31 AM
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#8 | |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Quote:
If anyone does, Alexander, you will! And I look forward to that day.m |
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15th March 2011, 01:30 AM
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#9 | |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Quote:
I have to admit that I am much surprised to see the down-curved form of the butt as early as the mid-15th c.!!! One never stops learning.  You really made a singular find with this, Alexander! I feel free to attach a re-worked close-up of the scene. Please note the arquebusier on the right aiming his gun left-handed and firing it by holding a glowing piece of tinder against the touch hole on top of the barrel. Matchlocks were not yet common at that period of time. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 15th March 2011 at 02:10 AM. |
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25th April 2013, 07:34 PM
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#10 |
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Halstenbek, Germany
Posts: 203
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In August 1848 not only the well known Tannenberg handgonnes were exavated from a water cisterne at Tanneberg Castle (Hesse, Germany) but also an iron ramrod lying near the handgonnes. The find can be securely dated to 1399 when Tannenberg Caste was sieged and destroyed by the City of Frankfurt. The find is publised in J. von Hefner, J. W. Wolf: Die Burg Trannenberg und ihre Ausgrabungen. Schwerberg, Frankfurt 1850 Online. On table VII the ramrod is marked with a "D" and here you can see its dimentsions compared to the handgonne. Till yet I don't know where the ramrod is kept or if it is still survived after the excavations some 160 year ago. The handgonne is kept at Germanisches Nationalmuseum in Nuremberg and I hope so the ramrod too.
Last edited by Andi; 25th April 2013 at 08:22 PM. |
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5th October 2013, 04:42 PM
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#11 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Splendid, Andi,
Great job - thanks a lot! When your are in Bavaria you should come and see me and my collection. Now how does that sound? Inciting, doesn't it?! Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 5th October 2013 at 06:25 PM. |
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