my favorite rapier

cornelistromp · 18th February 2011, 07:46 PM

I found out that among this Fleet of the Holy League who fought the Battle of Lepanto on 7 October 1571. there was a Venetian Galley in the left wing called:

Cavallo Marino (Seahorse) of Candia — Antonio De Cavalli

so with a little imagination (why not) this rapier could have belonged to the captain of this ship Antonio de Cavalli.

see.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...rder_of_battle

and for Italian.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battaglia_di_Lepanto_(ordine_di_battaglia)

The Left Wing
Commanded by Agostino Barbarigo (53 galleys, 2 galleasses)

Venetian Galleasses (2)
Galleass of Ambrogio Bragadin
Galleass of Antonio Bragadin
Venetian Galleys (39)
Capitana Lanterna (flagship lantern) of Venice (L) — Agostino Barbarigo, Proveditor General of the Republic
Capitana (flagship) of Venice (L) — Marco Querini, Proveditor of the Fleet
Fortuna (Fortune) of Venice — Andrea Barbarigo †
Tre Mani (Three Hands) of Venice — Giorgio Barbarigo
Due Delfini (Two Dolphins) of Candia — Francesco Zen
Leone e Fenice (Lion & Phoenix) of Candia — Francesco Mengano
Madonna (Milady) of Candia — Filippo Polani
Cavallo Marino (Seahorse) of Candia — Antonio De Cavalli
Due Leoni (Two Lions) of Candia — Nicolò Fradello
Leone (Lion) of Candia — Francesco Bonvecchio
Cristo (Christ) of Candia I — Andrea Corner
Angelo (Angel) of Candia — Giovanni Angelo
Piramide (Pyramid) of Candia — Francesco Bono †
Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Venice I — Simon Guoro
Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Venice II — Federico Renier
Cristo (Christ) of Corfu — Cristoforo Condocolli
Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Candia I — Francesco Zancaruol
Cristo (Christ) of Venice I — Bartolomeo Donato
Cristo (Christ) of Candia II— Giovanni Corner
Christo Risordo (Risen Christ) of Candia II
Rodi (Rhodes) of Candia — Francesco Molini (Konstam gives Kodus)
Sant'Eufemia (St. Euphemia) of Brescia — Orazio Fisogni
Bravo (Skillful) of Candia — Michele Viramano (Konstam gives Blessed)
Cavallo Marino (Seahorse) of Venice
Cristo (Christ) of Candia III — Danielo Calefatti
Braccio (Arm) of Venice — Nicolò Lippomano (Konstam gives "of Candia")
Nostra Signora (Our Lady) of Zante — Nicolò Mondini
Christo Risordo (Risen Christ) of Candia III — Giorgio Calergi
Nostra Signora (Our Lady) of Venice I — Marcantonio Pisani
Dio Padre e Santa Trinità (God, Father & Holy Trinity) of Venice — Giovanni Marino Contarini †
Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Venice III — Giovanni Battista Querini
Angelo (Angel) of Venice — Onfre Giustiniani
Santa Dorotea (St. Dorothy) of Venice — Polo Nani
Ketianana of Rethymno/Retimo — Nicolò Avonal
Lion's Head of Istria
Croce (Cross) of Cefalonia — Marco Cimera
Vergine Santa (Virgin Saint) of Cefalonia — Cristoforo Criffa
Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Veglia — Lodovico Cicuta (Konstam gives "of Vegia")
San Nicolò (St. Nicholas) of Cherso — Colane Drascio
Some sources include:
Dama a cavallo (Lady on Horseback) of Candia — Antonio Eudomeniani
Leone (Lion) of Capodistria — Domenico Del Taco

fernando · 18th February 2011, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

... so with a little imagination (why not) this rapier could have belonged to the captain of this ship Antonio de Cavalli ...

Yes or, if not belonging to the Captain himself, making part of the Cavallo Marino galley arsenal ???.

cornelistromp · 19th February 2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando

Yes or, if not belonging to the Captain himself, making part of the Cavallo Marino galley arsenal ???.

Hi Fernando,

Yes, of course that could also be possible, anyway i think we have to search in this direction because the wording CAVALO MARINO is highly unusual to put on a rapier.

regards,

pictures of Vitrine 04 of the Armeria Real in madrid

Dmitry · 13th April 2011, 12:58 AM

Hi,
A sword with a similar hilt is in the Cesta Castle armour collection, in San Marino. Perhaps CAVALO MARINO has something to do with the locale? [San] Marino Cavalry?

fernando · 14th April 2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitry

... Perhaps CAVALO MARINO has something to do with the locale? [San] Marino Cavalry?

I don't know; i would be more inclined to associate this inscription to the Cretan Galley than to the enclave named after the Monk of Rab.
At least it sounds more coherent, as the dual word term (sea horse) form a plausible alegory.
It must be an interesting museum, by the way.

cornelistromp · 16th April 2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

I don't know; i would be more inclined to associate this inscription to the Cretan Galley than to the enclave named after the Monk of Rab.
At least it sounds more coherent, as the dual word term (sea horse) form a plausible alegory.
It must be an interesting museum, by the way.

Hi Dmitry,
thanks for the very nice picture !
I don't expect the sword had something to do with the cavalry of San Marino;
cavalry= cavalleria (IT) Caballeria(SP) Cavataria(PT)
Horse= Caballo (SP) cavallo (IT) cavalo (PT)
the translation of CAVALO MARINO is undoubtfully seahorse, and Seahorses do not come often on the mainland.

best,

Jim McDougall · 17th April 2011, 06:12 AM

Just to add to the ratiocination:

It is worthy of note that similar hilt configurations with this kind of pierced openwork in the elements are seen in "Armi Bianchi Italiene" (Boccia & Coelho, 1975, Milan) example #142, shown as from Veneto c.1480-1500. Another two hander #584 c.1603 is seen with similar quadreform pierced pommel and quillons on guard (op. cit.).

Veneto is to the west of Venice, and there is a region known as Cavaion Veronese. This is simply worthy of note because of the similarity to the spelling of 'cavaio'. It seems likely that the 'cavaio' spelling is phonetically sounded to the word 'cavallo', which of course in Italian refers to horse.
The term cavallo is used describing a number of presumably cavalry or horsemans swords.

As is often the case, it seems there is always potential for classical and perhaps even mythological allusion in symbology in weapons with markings, inscriptions and phrases. With the term 'cavaio marino' it does seem to apply more to 'seahorse', as noted with the name of the galley at Lepanto.
It is not common however to put the name of an individual, ship or otherwise in the fuller of a sword as far as I am aware.

It seemed likely that perhaps heraldic metaphor might come into play with the seahorse in this case, and nothing specific was apparant, however in mythology the sea nymph Thetis, mother of Achilles, is sometimes depicted on a sea horse carrying the arms forged by Vulcan for Achilles.
("Fictitious and Symbolic Creatures in Art", John Vinycomb, 1909).

The weapons of Germany and Italy were often closely aligned in these times, and as has been noted, the mans head mark is similar to some of Solingen. The phonetic spelling of cavaio seems to reflect other instances where names or words spuriously applied in Solingen on blades often had spelling or other subtle errors.

We know that in Solingen blades were often tailored to certain markets and it is now believed that the names or words in blade fullers may well have been chosen and used to appeal to these markets. For example, the legendary Andrea Ferara name of course was favored in Scotland and was invariably placed on these broadsword blades; Sahagum blades often went to the north countries; Tomas Aiala is on rapier blades for export to Spain and its colonies.
Could the 'cavaio marino' carry classical allusion ? and perhaps be considered a 'brand' or blade type to appeal to Italian market?

Fanciful ? perhaps, but then sometimes such thinking is fun and at least worth considering.

13th April 2011, 12:58 AM	#4
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Hi, A sword with a similar hilt is in the Cesta Castle armour collection, in San Marino. Perhaps CAVALO MARINO has something to do with the locale? [San] Marino Cavalry? Attached Images

18th February 2011, 07:46 PM	#1
cornelistromp Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 1,060	I found out that among this Fleet of the Holy League who fought the Battle of Lepanto on 7 October 1571. there was a Venetian Galley in the left wing called: Cavallo Marino (Seahorse) of Candia — Antonio De Cavalli so with a little imagination (why not) this rapier could have belonged to the captain of this ship Antonio de Cavalli. see. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_...rder_of_battle and for Italian. http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battaglia_di_Lepanto_(ordine_di_battaglia) The Left Wing Commanded by Agostino Barbarigo (53 galleys, 2 galleasses) Venetian Galleasses (2) Galleass of Ambrogio Bragadin Galleass of Antonio Bragadin Venetian Galleys (39) Capitana Lanterna (flagship lantern) of Venice (L) — Agostino Barbarigo, Proveditor General of the Republic Capitana (flagship) of Venice (L) — Marco Querini, Proveditor of the Fleet Fortuna (Fortune) of Venice — Andrea Barbarigo † Tre Mani (Three Hands) of Venice — Giorgio Barbarigo Due Delfini (Two Dolphins) of Candia — Francesco Zen Leone e Fenice (Lion & Phoenix) of Candia — Francesco Mengano Madonna (Milady) of Candia — Filippo Polani Cavallo Marino (Seahorse) of Candia — Antonio De Cavalli Due Leoni (Two Lions) of Candia — Nicolò Fradello Leone (Lion) of Candia — Francesco Bonvecchio Cristo (Christ) of Candia I — Andrea Corner Angelo (Angel) of Candia — Giovanni Angelo Piramide (Pyramid) of Candia — Francesco Bono † Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Venice I — Simon Guoro Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Venice II — Federico Renier Cristo (Christ) of Corfu — Cristoforo Condocolli Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Candia I — Francesco Zancaruol Cristo (Christ) of Venice I — Bartolomeo Donato Cristo (Christ) of Candia II— Giovanni Corner Christo Risordo (Risen Christ) of Candia II Rodi (Rhodes) of Candia — Francesco Molini (Konstam gives Kodus) Sant'Eufemia (St. Euphemia) of Brescia — Orazio Fisogni Bravo (Skillful) of Candia — Michele Viramano (Konstam gives Blessed) Cavallo Marino (Seahorse) of Venice Cristo (Christ) of Candia III — Danielo Calefatti Braccio (Arm) of Venice — Nicolò Lippomano (Konstam gives "of Candia") Nostra Signora (Our Lady) of Zante — Nicolò Mondini Christo Risordo (Risen Christ) of Candia III — Giorgio Calergi Nostra Signora (Our Lady) of Venice I — Marcantonio Pisani Dio Padre e Santa Trinità (God, Father & Holy Trinity) of Venice — Giovanni Marino Contarini † Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Venice III — Giovanni Battista Querini Angelo (Angel) of Venice — Onfre Giustiniani Santa Dorotea (St. Dorothy) of Venice — Polo Nani Ketianana of Rethymno/Retimo — Nicolò Avonal Lion's Head of Istria Croce (Cross) of Cefalonia — Marco Cimera Vergine Santa (Virgin Saint) of Cefalonia — Cristoforo Criffa Cristo Risorto (Risen Christ) of Veglia — Lodovico Cicuta (Konstam gives "of Vegia") San Nicolò (St. Nicholas) of Cherso — Colane Drascio Some sources include: Dama a cavallo (Lady on Horseback) of Candia — Antonio Eudomeniani Leone (Lion) of Capodistria — Domenico Del Taco

17th April 2011, 06:12 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,502	Just to add to the ratiocination: It is worthy of note that similar hilt configurations with this kind of pierced openwork in the elements are seen in "Armi Bianchi Italiene" (Boccia & Coelho, 1975, Milan) example #142, shown as from Veneto c.1480-1500. Another two hander #584 c.1603 is seen with similar quadreform pierced pommel and quillons on guard (op. cit.). Veneto is to the west of Venice, and there is a region known as Cavaion Veronese. This is simply worthy of note because of the similarity to the spelling of 'cavaio'. It seems likely that the 'cavaio' spelling is phonetically sounded to the word 'cavallo', which of course in Italian refers to horse. The term cavallo is used describing a number of presumably cavalry or horsemans swords. As is often the case, it seems there is always potential for classical and perhaps even mythological allusion in symbology in weapons with markings, inscriptions and phrases. With the term 'cavaio marino' it does seem to apply more to 'seahorse', as noted with the name of the galley at Lepanto. It is not common however to put the name of an individual, ship or otherwise in the fuller of a sword as far as I am aware. It seemed likely that perhaps heraldic metaphor might come into play with the seahorse in this case, and nothing specific was apparant, however in mythology the sea nymph Thetis, mother of Achilles, is sometimes depicted on a sea horse carrying the arms forged by Vulcan for Achilles. ("Fictitious and Symbolic Creatures in Art", John Vinycomb, 1909). The weapons of Germany and Italy were often closely aligned in these times, and as has been noted, the mans head mark is similar to some of Solingen. The phonetic spelling of cavaio seems to reflect other instances where names or words spuriously applied in Solingen on blades often had spelling or other subtle errors. We know that in Solingen blades were often tailored to certain markets and it is now believed that the names or words in blade fullers may well have been chosen and used to appeal to these markets. For example, the legendary Andrea Ferara name of course was favored in Scotland and was invariably placed on these broadsword blades; Sahagum blades often went to the north countries; Tomas Aiala is on rapier blades for export to Spain and its colonies. Could the 'cavaio marino' carry classical allusion ? and perhaps be considered a 'brand' or blade type to appeal to Italian market? Fanciful ? perhaps, but then sometimes such thinking is fun and at least worth considering.