Any Amazon collectors?

Titus Pullo · 18th February 2011, 02:48 PM

Anybody seen that movie "Apocalypto"? It's a great movie.... They use real Indians and some actors from Mexico, which are basically Indians anyway. I recommend it to anyone.

Tim Simmons · 1st March 2011, 06:20 PM

The long one is 45 inches long and idea for keeping an arms length apart. They are not antique but they are certainly not new and have some age when I compare the the weaving with Naga pieces. The pictures are from "AMAZONIEN Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen, Museum fur Volkerkunde Dresden 2009" collection dates in the publication span the 20th century. So I think I am in good company.

CourseEight · 3rd March 2011, 07:34 PM

Thanks for posting these Tim! Here is the lone Amazonian piece from my collection. A friend says his father lived in Brazil and collected this mid-20th century, but it is just heresay. Closely matches the spear in your last photo I think.

Tim Simmons · 16th April 2011, 08:01 PM

That will be the next thing I need. In the meantime I have another club and still another to come. I have had to redo the whipping with a hemp cord for fear of loosing the woven pattern. The palm? cord that was on it was down to a few strands. There would have been hemp like cordage in the Amazon. I will bet that this was frequently done with what ever when ever needed. Nice to have one with the same pattern as in a museum book.

Tim Simmons · 3rd May 2011, 10:31 AM

My latest Kayapo sword club, heavy 98cm long. Now I have these treasures the Brazilians with the Chinese can carry on turning the Amazon to tarmac, another 50 years and there might be a few Indian theme parks.

I took the hemp cord off and used raffia much more correct and just the same as seen in books.

Tim Simmons · 18th April 2012, 05:51 PM

I have picked up this really nice pole club. Not huge 71cm long the wood is surprisingly heavy for the size. It came from a Canadian collection of some really fabulous North American clubs. Obviously I did not stand a chance, you needed huge pockets to house a massive wallet and big belt plus suspenders to hold your pants up. Luckily the nasty bigger boys do not seem interested in South American stuff so I manage to slip in almost unnoticed. I am not completely sure it is Amazon regions but I am sure it is South American judging from what I have seen in varrious museums. What is funny is that is that this club is old, pretty sure its at least turn of the 19-20th century unlike my other Amazon clubs. I got it with shipping and taxes for less than any of the others. Which was rather nice.

KuKulzA28 · 20th April 2012, 12:56 AM

I've got to say thanks for collecting these! I'm fascinated with North, Central, and South American indigenous weapons, but there just doesn't seem to be as much interest in them as antique swords, and I guess hence much less easily accessible literature. Glad you post these up, good to see these wooden poles, bats, and swords.

colin henshaw · 20th January 2013, 09:48 AM

A good looking group of clubs. Interesting to see variants in the woven grip designs, with those angular contrasting patterns that seem typical of the area.

Tim Simmons · 24th January 2013, 05:37 PM

New addition to the Amazon collection. It has still to arrive and I only have the one cropped picture. It is the club with the handle uppermost in the pictures. Wayana is only one group that this form may be found. The other pictures are from- the club without teeth additions

Amazonien Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen, Museum fur Volkerkunde Dresden. Just listed as a flat club.

the other with Jaguar teeth- Arts of the Amazon- Thames and Hudson. Listed as a ceremonial club used by shaman in the ant shield ceremony.

My club has additions of Peccaries teeth. This form of club is found in the rain forest borders of the Guiana's.

This is a very interesting link that helps set the surroundings, about elusive people in this region.

http://www.kitlv-journals.nl/index.p...File/5298/6065

Tim Simmons · 26th January 2013, 04:47 PM

I just thought I ought to add this comparison of iconography to what is clearly recognized as Amazonian.

Tim Simmons · 11th February 2013, 11:29 AM

Finally ready to show this. I know there is limited interest in this sort of thing. Just think about it? yes its not hundreds of years old but it is far from common and I have been informed of its rarity due to evangelism, let alone the small size of population. Poor versions are made for sale. A great deal of the "antique" weapons we collect are very common made in there millions but still seem to be rather expensive.
I have restored the missing tusks, thank you "weapons27" as the tusks were all damaged. Only one of the original tusks was usable after some super glue.

colin henshaw · 17th April 2013, 11:59 AM

Interesting Tim, thanks for posting - your collection is certainly expanding...

Tim Simmons · 17th April 2013, 04:12 PM

Thanks Colin. A little bit of follow up to this new club. From, Museums fur Volkerkunde Dresden "Amazonien Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen" Here the Ikpeng are called Txicao their language group. I am sure people will find the pictures interesting, the club is 115cm long.

Sajen · 17th April 2013, 07:40 PM

Amazing collection of Amazon clubs you have there Tim, congrats!

Regards,

Detlef

colin henshaw · 28th April 2013, 12:45 PM

Thought these recent finds (Amazonian club and beaded apron), would be best tacked onto Tim's thread. Northern Brazil/Southern Guyana ?

I do like those Amazon strong geometric designs...

Regards.

KuKulzA28 · 28th April 2013, 03:38 PM

the bat looks like Kayapo weaponry to me

I agree, some of them have very nice geometric weaving, like that one

ashoka · 15th June 2013, 03:10 PM

Just to show the range of size and shapes of some of these old Amazon Makana and Sapakana from Guyana/Guiana and Brazil, here are some photos of a friends collection, some nice examples pretty much showing all the forms used for bashing heads... enjoy! Stefan

VANDOO · 15th June 2013, 05:33 PM

WOW!!! WHAT A REMARKABLE COLLECTION SOMETHING THAT CAN ONLY HAPPEN IF YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND THRU MANY YEARS OF COLLECTING. THANKS FOR SHAREING

1st March 2011, 06:20 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Two rather spiffing new chums. The long one is 45 inches long and idea for keeping an arms length apart. They are not antique but they are certainly not new and have some age when I compare the the weaving with Naga pieces. The pictures are from "AMAZONIEN Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen, Museum fur Volkerkunde Dresden 2009" collection dates in the publication span the 20th century. So I think I am in good company. Attached Images

3rd March 2011, 07:34 PM	#3
CourseEight Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Coral Springs, FL Posts: 222	Thanks for posting these Tim! Here is the lone Amazonian piece from my collection. A friend says his father lived in Brazil and collected this mid-20th century, but it is just heresay. Closely matches the spear in your last photo I think. Attached Images

16th April 2011, 08:01 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	That will be the next thing I need. In the meantime I have another club and still another to come. I have had to redo the whipping with a hemp cord for fear of loosing the woven pattern. The palm? cord that was on it was down to a few strands. There would have been hemp like cordage in the Amazon. I will bet that this was frequently done with what ever when ever needed. Nice to have one with the same pattern as in a museum book. Attached Images

3rd May 2011, 10:31 AM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	My latest Kayapo sword club, heavy 98cm long. Now I have these treasures the Brazilians with the Chinese can carry on turning the Amazon to tarmac, another 50 years and there might be a few Indian theme parks. I took the hemp cord off and used raffia much more correct and just the same as seen in books. Attached Images

18th April 2012, 05:51 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I have picked up this really nice pole club. Not huge 71cm long the wood is surprisingly heavy for the size. It came from a Canadian collection of some really fabulous North American clubs. Obviously I did not stand a chance, you needed huge pockets to house a massive wallet and big belt plus suspenders to hold your pants up. Luckily the nasty bigger boys do not seem interested in South American stuff so I manage to slip in almost unnoticed. I am not completely sure it is Amazon regions but I am sure it is South American judging from what I have seen in varrious museums. What is funny is that is that this club is old, pretty sure its at least turn of the 19-20th century unlike my other Amazon clubs. I got it with shipping and taxes for less than any of the others. Which was rather nice. Attached Images

18th February 2011, 02:48 PM	#1
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	Anybody seen that movie "Apocalypto"? It's a great movie.... They use real Indians and some actors from Mexico, which are basically Indians anyway. I recommend it to anyone.

20th April 2012, 12:56 AM	#7
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	I've got to say thanks for collecting these! I'm fascinated with North, Central, and South American indigenous weapons, but there just doesn't seem to be as much interest in them as antique swords, and I guess hence much less easily accessible literature. Glad you post these up, good to see these wooden poles, bats, and swords.

20th January 2013, 09:48 AM	#8
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	A good looking group of clubs. Interesting to see variants in the woven grip designs, with those angular contrasting patterns that seem typical of the area.

24th January 2013, 05:37 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Wayana New addition to the Amazon collection. It has still to arrive and I only have the one cropped picture. It is the club with the handle uppermost in the pictures. Wayana is only one group that this form may be found. The other pictures are from- the club without teeth additions Amazonien Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen, Museum fur Volkerkunde Dresden. Just listed as a flat club. the other with Jaguar teeth- Arts of the Amazon- Thames and Hudson. Listed as a ceremonial club used by shaman in the ant shield ceremony. My club has additions of Peccaries teeth. This form of club is found in the rain forest borders of the Guiana's. This is a very interesting link that helps set the surroundings, about elusive people in this region. http://www.kitlv-journals.nl/index.p...File/5298/6065 Attached Images

26th January 2013, 04:47 PM	#10
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	I just thought I ought to add this comparison of iconography to what is clearly recognized as Amazonian. Attached Images

11th February 2013, 11:29 AM	#11
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Finally ready to show this. I know there is limited interest in this sort of thing. Just think about it? yes its not hundreds of years old but it is far from common and I have been informed of its rarity due to evangelism, let alone the small size of population. Poor versions are made for sale. A great deal of the "antique" weapons we collect are very common made in there millions but still seem to be rather expensive. I have restored the missing tusks, thank you "weapons27" as the tusks were all damaged. Only one of the original tusks was usable after some super glue. Attached Images

17th April 2013, 11:59 AM	#12
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	Interesting Tim, thanks for posting - your collection is certainly expanding...

17th April 2013, 04:12 PM	#13
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,842	Thanks Colin. A little bit of follow up to this new club. From, Museums fur Volkerkunde Dresden "Amazonien Indianer der Regenwalder und Savannen" Here the Ikpeng are called Txicao their language group. I am sure people will find the pictures interesting, the club is 115cm long. Attached Images

17th April 2013, 07:40 PM	#14
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Amazing collection of Amazon clubs you have there Tim, congrats! Regards, Detlef

28th April 2013, 12:45 PM	#15
colin henshaw Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,429	Thought these recent finds (Amazonian club and beaded apron), would be best tacked onto Tim's thread. Northern Brazil/Southern Guyana ? I do like those Amazon strong geometric designs... Regards. Attached Images

28th April 2013, 03:38 PM	#16
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	the bat looks like Kayapo weaponry to me I agree, some of them have very nice geometric weaving, like that one

15th June 2013, 03:10 PM	#17
ashoka Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 61	Just to show the range of size and shapes of some of these old Amazon Makana and Sapakana from Guyana/Guiana and Brazil, here are some photos of a friends collection, some nice examples pretty much showing all the forms used for bashing heads... enjoy! Stefan Attached Images

15th June 2013, 05:33 PM	#18
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	WOW!!! WHAT A REMARKABLE COLLECTION SOMETHING THAT CAN ONLY HAPPEN IF YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT PLACE AND THRU MANY YEARS OF COLLECTING. THANKS FOR SHAREING