Massive possible Sumatran Klewang? Info needed!

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo again Gene,

I can't be 100% sure without actually handling the item, but yours looks like a Golok Soenda (NOT Djawa) Pandjang Sintoeng Soelangkar Perah Pingping Hajam; or simply, Golok Pandjang Soelangkar.
Originally such items were part of the prescribed implements of the Prboe (warrior) class (N.B. warrior CLASS, as opposed to WARRIOR). It formed half of a pair , the other half being a sword/sabre (not necessarily of the same length) similar to the first picture in Arjan's post.
These people were usually mounted, hence the length, which would have been of very limited use on foot.
The Golok was used for 'hacking/ chopping' (e.g through jungle growth) while the sabre was for the cut/thrust, hence it would have been much lighter.
Goloks/swords among the Soenda would normally not exceed 75-80cm in length, for ease and utility (as the Dutch found out when they were developing the 'Kalewang'). A more 'comfortable' length would be 40-60cm
BTW ..... Banten, Bandoeng, West Java, etc are all part of traditional Tatar Soenda.

Best,

Hi Amuk,

Thank you for your help.
I dare not try a translation of "Pandjang Sintoeng Soelangkar Perah Pingping Hajam", but is it correct that "Golok Pandjang Soelangkar" translates as 'long golok with lines in the steel'?
Also, you say that it is from Soenda?

What is your understanding of 'Golok'? In the UK the term is associated with machete's, which would fit with what you were saying about cutting the jungle back from horseback.
Do you think that this is just a machete and not a weapon? It would be very cumbersome to use as a machete as it's so long and heavy.

Thanks again
Gene

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

..... is it correct that "Golok Pandjang Soelangkar" translates as 'long golok with lines in the steel'?
Also, you say that it is from Soenda? .....

Generally speaking, yes.
Your style of golok is often referred to as 'Soemedangan'. (The picture above, showing the weaponry of Wiranatakoesoemah reminds one that Bandoeng used to be part of Soemedang)

Originally Posted by Atlantia

..... What is your understanding of 'Golok'? .....

At least up until the early 16thC it was an implement of the warrior class. Farmer-class implements which were similar were referred to as: Bedog. (The difference was mainly in quality and fittings). Since then, this demarcation has gradually become blurred. Today, the two words have become interchangeable.
This is mainly due to the rise and fall in the fortunes of people and places since then (leading to the erosion of tradition and blurring of history).
On a more general note, the golok is often confused with sword.
One must remember that no real universal standard for weapons existed. Each weapon was basically customised to the individual. Thus what constituted a golok or a sword was quite subjective, the main difference being the primary function (viz. one may be required to do battle with a sword for hours, on foot and/or mounted).

Originally Posted by Atlantia

..... Do you think that this is just a machete and not a weapon? .....

The Soenda are traditionally a very utilitarian people. They try to maximise the utility of anything.
So, of course the golok was not just a machete, even though that may have been its primary function.

Originally Posted by Atlantia

..... (while I think about how to do the ferrule) .....

If the throat is brass, then the ferrule should also be of brass, capping the bottom of the handle up to the ridge and allowing a hole for the tang.

Originally Posted by Atlantia

..... a high contrast dark etch? .....

Traditionally, the Soenda do not do this; the Djawa do. Normal blade-cleaning sufficed.
However, on the occasions that the Soenda did 'etch' a blade, it was done to to clean it and apply poison.
(An implement with such a use was often referred to as 'Salam Noenggal'/Single Greeting/Greets Once. One only has to be 'nicked' by it to 'kiss Mother Earth: Goodbye'.)

Best,

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Traditionally, the Soenda do not do this; the Djawa do. Normal blade-cleaning sufficed.
However, on the occasions that the Soenda did 'etch' a blade, it was done to to clean it and apply poison.
(An implement with such a use was often referred to as 'Salam Noenggal'/Single Greeting/Greets Once. One only has to be 'nicked' by it to 'kiss Mother Earth: Goodbye'.

Best,

Hello Amuk,

thank you very much for this information. What is with Kudis like in your avatar? They also not etched?

Regards,

Detlef

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Amuk,

thank you very much for this information. What is with Kudis like in your avatar? They also not etched?

Regards,

Detlef

Hullo Detlef,

Typically, the Koedjang in my avatar has a damascene pattern. It is a pattern which is produced as a side-effect of the process and not a 'designer'. I do not etch the end product.(BTW ..... Damascene patterns were another feature common to blades of the warrior and religious classes but uncommon in famers' blades. Pattern reflected the quality of the blade and being a by-product of the process were limited in variety.)
Tschuss,

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Hullo Detlef,

Typically, the Koedjang in my avatar also has a damascene pattern. It is a pattern which is produced by the process and therefore not a 'designer'. I do not etch the end product.(BTW ..... Damascene patterns were another feature common to blades of the warrior and religious classes but uncommon in famers' blades.)

Best,

Hi Amuk,

Sorry, I'm confused. My blade is 'pattern welded' with ripples and lines, a damascene pattern.
It seems to have an existing 'etch' to bring out the pattern in the steel. Do you think it would have been a mild etch? Not enough to make it dark and the pattern high contrast, just enough to show the laminations?

The throat of the scabbard is made of buffalo horn. It seems to have been carved from a single piece as it has no joins and secured with horn pins. There is no metal apart from the blade.
The missing scabbard end seems likely to have been made in a similar way. I'll try and carve one myself as pieces of horn are easy to get.

Have you ever seen a golok of this size? From you comments it seems large, even for a golok of this type?

Forgive my lack of knowledge, do you mean by "Soemedangan", made in Soemedang? (is it a place?)

'Salam Noenggal'/Single Greeting/Greets Once! LOL, I love your description: One only has to be 'nicked' by it to 'kiss Mother Earth: Goodbye'.




Thank you for your help.
Best
Gene

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hi Amuk,

Sorry, I'm confused. My blade is 'pattern welded' with ripples and lines, a damascene pattern.
It seems to have an existing 'etch' to bring out the pattern in the steel. Do you think it would have been a mild etch? Not enough to make it dark and the pattern high contrast, just enough to show the laminations?

The throat of the scabbard is made of buffalo horn. It seems to have been carved from a single piece as it has no joins and secured with horn pins. There is no metal apart from the blade.
The missing scabbard end seems likely to have been made in a similar way. I'll try and carve one myself as pieces of horn are easy to get.

Have you ever seen a golok of this size? From you comments it seems large, even for a golok of this type?

Forgive my lack of knowledge, do you mean by "Soemedangan", made in Soemedang? (is it a place?)

'Salam Noenggal'/Single Greeting/Greets Once! LOL, I love your description: One only has to be 'nicked' by it to 'kiss Mother Earth: Goodbye'.




Thank you for your help.
Best
Gene

Hullo again Gene,

If the lines are generally slightly jagged and wavy (wanders) like the graph of a recorder, then it's still Soelangkar (as I mentioned previously, history has blurred and today there is a wider definition of the term).
I am assuming that by ripples you mean 'blobs'/'droplets' (even a few concentric ones): as long as the lines are otherwise continuous from base-to-tip of the blade, being only broken in places by these ripples, then it is still a Soelangkar. Only in this case, it's a Soelangkar Toetoel.
Someone may have etched it to ascertain that it was indeed one (usually strong sunlight is enough to do this).

Since the throat is horn, I wouldn't bother with the ferrule.

As for size, have a look at my picture; that's only a five-foot-something standing next to the goloks.

'Soemedangan' means in the style of Soemedang, which is the name of a city, the capital of a Regency of the same name and the name of a previous kingdom, deemed by many as the de facto inheritor of the old Soenda-Galoeh kingdom.

Best,

[Titus Pullo]

They very pretty! I like the straight ones the best. I think they work better at what they are design to do.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Titus Pullo

They very pretty! I like the straight ones the best. I think they work better at what they are design to do.

Thanks Titus,
I have to agree that if one of it's functions is to hack and slay, I imagine it would be very efficient!

Best
Gene

[tom hyle]

note resemblance to sikkin