Posted on request: ivory,silver & twistcore!

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by VANDOO

MY GUT FEELING IS THE BLADE AND IVORY POMMEL MAY BE OF THE SAME AGE. THE SILVERWORK ON THE HANDLE AND SCABBARD MORE RECENT, THE SCABBARD LOOKS MORE RECENT TOO. THE OLDER SILVER WORK I HAVE SEEN ON ITEMS FROM MALAYSIA AND THE PHILIPPINES TEND TO HAVE A MORE PURE SILVER AND ARE USUALLY THINNER, WORN, CRACKED, BENT, DENTED ECT.
THE SEPARATE GANJA SEEMS TO HAVE THE STRAIGHT LINE FROM THE ORIGINAL ELEPHANTS TRUNK AND THEN IS CUT DOWN AT AN ANGLE AS USUAL. IT GOES INTO THE HOLE WHERE THE SECOND ELEPHANTS TRUNK IS LOCATED. IF SO THERE IS A BREAK IN THE OUTSIDE CARVING SO THE TWO PARTS DO NOT CONNECT TO COMPLETELY ENCLOSE THE SECOND ELEPHANTS TRUNK. IF THIS IS SO I THINK THE BLADE WAS ORIGINALLY MADE IN THE NORMAL MANNER. IT WAS LATER MODIFIED PERHAPS BY THE SWORDMAKER BUT MORE LIKELY AT THE BUYERS REQUEST FOR REASONS UNKNOWN. ITS UNFORTUNATE THE ORIGINAL HANDLE IS NOT PRESENT AS IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO HAVE SEEN HOW IT WAS ATTACHED ORIGINALLY. I LIKE THE ODD AND UNUSUAL SO WOULD BE HAPPY TO HAVE SUCH A SWORD IN MY COLLECTION

Hi Vandoo,

I don't think at all that the sleeve is a latter addition.
It shows great age in real (maybe the image is misleading for you?), is bent here and there, and also cracked on some places. It isn't that thick as you think, but the sleeve exist of layers of silverwork on top of eachother (decorated bands etc.), which looks like it is made of one thick piece of silver.
But it isn't...Look at the image I attached. You can see on of the band that is loose, and also you can see in the silverwork where the clamp went under the silverwork a long time ago (it is also seen on the other side, so it had two clamps in the past).

The silverwork on the scabbard I don't know and can't say, cause there is no scabbard to my piece... (probably you are mixing it up with a scabbard in this thread another member added).

Kind Regards,
Maurice

[VVV]

Interesting piece!

I go for Peninsular Malaysia too based on:

- the full silver collar.
- no clamp added.
- the "karna tinanding"-feature (which might be later) indicates that it comes more from a "keris" than "kris-culture",
where the owner would appreciate esoteric features like that.

Maurice, please take a closer look to see if you see any signs of the extra trunk being made later?

Michael

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by VVV

Interesting piece!

I go for Peninsular Malaysia too based on:

- the full silver collar.
- no clamp added.
- the "karna tinanding"-feature (which might be later) indicates that it comes more from a "keris" than "kris-culture",
where the owner would appreciate esoteric features like that.

Maurice, please take a closer look to see if you see any signs of the extra trunk being made later?

Michael

Michael, I gave the extra trunk a closer look.
It could be done later, but than it happened a long time ago, cause the patina is the same on the edges of the trunk as it is on the other side.

However I came to the conclusion that it probably is done after the two pieces of metal were allready connected to eachother. See yourself where the seperate line between those two are.
The trunk is made from the part of the blade, but a little piece of the "open circular shape" is part of the ganja....

One image I attached with a yellow line to mark the ganja line, to make it more clear...

Kind Regards,
Maurice

[Battara]

I don't think the other "trunk" was made later, but with all the evidence shown so far I am convinced it is not Moro but Indonesian or Malay. I also agree that it is a shame that it is missing the scabbard.

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo everybody!

To me, it appears to be a Soendang. However, I tend to place it as being from northern Kalimantan.

Best,

[Robert]

Hello Amuk, If you are right on its place of origin, what would the scabbard have looked like?

Robert

[Amuk Murugul]

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Hello Amuk, If you are right on its place of origin, what would the scabbard have looked like?

Robert

Hullo Robert,

It's difficult to be objective, but I would be more inclined for the sheath to be of psuedo-Riau/Boegis type using any combination of wood, ivory and silver. It would not surprise me if the whole cross-piece were of ivory matching the pommel and the rest of the sheath either partially or totally covered in silverwork (blackened or not).
..... BTW ..... I have seen one Soendang in Kelantan with a similar-looking blade (only one trunk though). I was led to believe that what looked like a twist-core along the centre of the blade was actually a damascene pattern.
Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to inspect it closer. Apparently, the blade was referred to as 'Mata Djawa'. Anyway, it was a beautiful piece!

Best,

[Maurice]

Originally Posted by Battara

I don't think the other "trunk" was made later, but with all the evidence shown so far I am convinced it is not Moro but Indonesian or Malay. I also agree that it is a shame that it is missing the scabbard.

Indeed a pity it isn't complete with the scabbard.
But the rule for me is: original scabbard/similar antique scabbard, or no scabbard.
I never missed the scabbard as display on a socket as it is now standing in our livingroom.
The twistcore blade is a better eyecatcher as a wooden scabbard....

Maurice