Sword Found at Wreck Site of Queen Annes Revenge

M ELEY · 19th January 2011, 01:53 PM

Hello gents, sorry I was away for awhile.

Jim, you bring up an excellent point concerning the evolution of the espada, from its ealy broad-bladed beginning to the classic forms of the later 19th century. It brings back the argument for me concerning the Brazilian espada cutlass we've discussed as far as practicality of it being a true horseman's saber vs a possible naval sword. I don't wish to digress from the present discussion, so I'll save that one for another time-

I am in agreement that after carefully perusing through Neumann, Gilkerson, Moore, Wilkinson-Latham, etc, you are spot-on that the style of this sword is probably too late for our time period. The ONLY example I did find, as mentioned, was in Soutwick with hall-marks around 1690. The hilt on it matched ours, but no drilled quillon hole. Likewise, as you point out, this style of sword had not really caught on yet.

The one quesion I'm not so sure of is whether this example might have had a shell-guard at one time? Looking back over the records, the QAR divers found the guard quite a bit earlier and this hilt in September, 2010. There is no absolute conclusion that they are from the same sword, per say. Anyway, just thinking aloud.

The Outer Banks are truly the Graveyard of the Atlantic and this hilt could easily have been from another wreck. It would be interesting to see the evolution of these hangers, though, from examples presented from earliest to latest period. Many of the previously mentioned books show examples, but not in descending order, nor encompassing the periods from hangers via 1650 to 1850. The earliest indeed had shell-guards and side plates, with very rough bumpy stag grips. Later examples had smooth, sanded stag, and in the 1770s on, were see the stained green and sometimes other garish stained colored grips. The 19th century forms of true hunting swords/hirshfangers still had shell guards and stag grips, emulating all those earlier forms, but the fittings were very straight/linier, with much decoration to the hilts/blades. Annis indicates that with the 18th c. hangers, it seemed that the plainer, unmarked versions were more popular with naval-men, with perhaps only an etched anchor on the blade.

Hopefully, more may turn up on this wreck to get a clearer picture of what Blackbeard and his crew might have really carried.

Jim McDougall · 19th January 2011, 06:10 PM

Hi Mark,
Thank you so much for responding! It appears we are indeed a limited crew still interested in pirates and things nautical, yo ho ho

so its great that you and I can discuss this intriguing topic.

Thanks for the note on the espada, and that would be a great subject to review futher under separate cover.

I want to emphasize again that I am in no way questioning the QAR wreck, nor its identity as Blackbeards ship. I personally believe that it is, and the only element of doubt is present simply because from an empirical standpoint, there can be no conclusive declaration issued without finite proof. At this point even with the staggering volume of artifacts found, there are none that can be unequivocally attributed to the QAR, only circumstantially. David Moore is a brilliant and intrepid nautical archaeology scholar, and I believe that one day he will find the proof he needs. It seems strange saying this as when he and I talked back when the wreck project began in 1996, I wished him well thinking it would be just a short time until proof was found.

Even with this sword hilt, I honestly wanted it to be from QAR. As I mentioned before, I had pestered these guys for years to 'find me some swords!, and teased them because they kept dragging up cannons.
With this hilt, it is amazing how a simple deliberate hole in a quillon can be so monumental in placing estimated date on a hilt, but these kinds of details are often key. I can recall one of the projects related to wreck diving involved the screws in the hilt elements, and establishing some chronology there.

I think probably one of the most confounding things in strategic excavation of a wreck site must be the debris deposited into the field of the site during storms and current deviations. With these kinds of conditions there must be considerable degree of movement of strata carrying with it various materials and items. In this, I really have been playing devils advocate, and hoped that somewhere out there among readers there might be someone who knew of provenanced examples of swords with the chainguard feature in earlier period than I was finding.

As I noted, in the many references I checked, all by recognized authorities on edged weapons, all indications have been that the chainguard was an element that became popular as the hunting sword became a 'degenerate court sword', as derisively described by Bashford Dean in 1929. By the mid 18th century, the hunt had devolved largely into a fashion event in many areas, and elegance in weaponry was de riguer.

Regarding the possible presence of shellguard on this example, I would think it unlikely. There does not appear to be an area of attachment to the quillon block from what I can see, and it would seem if attached otherwise, there would be remnants present . Still the ever present aperture for the chain cries out

Also, in looking at this hilt, it seems that the grip reflects spiral rotation in the material, which looks more like ivory as it seems somewhat opague, perhaps after that many years of immersion. Much of it is covered by the concretion, but it doesnt seem like staghorn. If is is of the ivory, which would seem to correspond as well with the gilt type jewellery effect, then it would further secure later date.

Thank you Mark for keeping the discussion going, and along with you, we'll wait for further developments.

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 21st January 2011, 11:21 AM

Jim, you bring up an excellent point of what Blackbeard's sword probably really looked like in the form of a clipped falchion such as this one-

http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0113-0.jpg

When we look at Fernando's pic of Blackbeard above, created around the same period, note the hilt is of the grotesque animal head type. We've discussed the Houndslow type, which probably mimiced some of the early Dutch pieces, which possibly took their forms from kastanes (the Dutch EIC being in Ceylon during the Anglo-Dutch Wars certainly influenced some of their sword styles). Here are a few of similar type and of the period Blackbeard might have taken a liking to...

http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0120-0.jpg
http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0114-0.jpg

Here is a similar style to the one found, but in silver and last quarter of the 17th century, no quillon hole-

http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0124-0.jpg

19th January 2011, 01:53 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Hello gents, sorry I was away for awhile. Jim, you bring up an excellent point concerning the evolution of the espada, from its ealy broad-bladed beginning to the classic forms of the later 19th century. It brings back the argument for me concerning the Brazilian espada cutlass we've discussed as far as practicality of it being a true horseman's saber vs a possible naval sword. I don't wish to digress from the present discussion, so I'll save that one for another time- I am in agreement that after carefully perusing through Neumann, Gilkerson, Moore, Wilkinson-Latham, etc, you are spot-on that the style of this sword is probably too late for our time period. The ONLY example I did find, as mentioned, was in Soutwick with hall-marks around 1690. The hilt on it matched ours, but no drilled quillon hole. Likewise, as you point out, this style of sword had not really caught on yet. The one quesion I'm not so sure of is whether this example might have had a shell-guard at one time? Looking back over the records, the QAR divers found the guard quite a bit earlier and this hilt in September, 2010. There is no absolute conclusion that they are from the same sword, per say. Anyway, just thinking aloud. The Outer Banks are truly the Graveyard of the Atlantic and this hilt could easily have been from another wreck. It would be interesting to see the evolution of these hangers, though, from examples presented from earliest to latest period. Many of the previously mentioned books show examples, but not in descending order, nor encompassing the periods from hangers via 1650 to 1850. The earliest indeed had shell-guards and side plates, with very rough bumpy stag grips. Later examples had smooth, sanded stag, and in the 1770s on, were see the stained green and sometimes other garish stained colored grips. The 19th century forms of true hunting swords/hirshfangers still had shell guards and stag grips, emulating all those earlier forms, but the fittings were very straight/linier, with much decoration to the hilts/blades. Annis indicates that with the 18th c. hangers, it seemed that the plainer, unmarked versions were more popular with naval-men, with perhaps only an etched anchor on the blade. Hopefully, more may turn up on this wreck to get a clearer picture of what Blackbeard and his crew might have really carried.

19th January 2011, 06:10 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Mark, Thank you so much for responding! It appears we are indeed a limited crew still interested in pirates and things nautical, yo ho ho so its great that you and I can discuss this intriguing topic. Thanks for the note on the espada, and that would be a great subject to review futher under separate cover. I want to emphasize again that I am in no way questioning the QAR wreck, nor its identity as Blackbeards ship. I personally believe that it is, and the only element of doubt is present simply because from an empirical standpoint, there can be no conclusive declaration issued without finite proof. At this point even with the staggering volume of artifacts found, there are none that can be unequivocally attributed to the QAR, only circumstantially. David Moore is a brilliant and intrepid nautical archaeology scholar, and I believe that one day he will find the proof he needs. It seems strange saying this as when he and I talked back when the wreck project began in 1996, I wished him well thinking it would be just a short time until proof was found. Even with this sword hilt, I honestly wanted it to be from QAR. As I mentioned before, I had pestered these guys for years to 'find me some swords!, and teased them because they kept dragging up cannons. With this hilt, it is amazing how a simple deliberate hole in a quillon can be so monumental in placing estimated date on a hilt, but these kinds of details are often key. I can recall one of the projects related to wreck diving involved the screws in the hilt elements, and establishing some chronology there. I think probably one of the most confounding things in strategic excavation of a wreck site must be the debris deposited into the field of the site during storms and current deviations. With these kinds of conditions there must be considerable degree of movement of strata carrying with it various materials and items. In this, I really have been playing devils advocate, and hoped that somewhere out there among readers there might be someone who knew of provenanced examples of swords with the chainguard feature in earlier period than I was finding. As I noted, in the many references I checked, all by recognized authorities on edged weapons, all indications have been that the chainguard was an element that became popular as the hunting sword became a 'degenerate court sword', as derisively described by Bashford Dean in 1929. By the mid 18th century, the hunt had devolved largely into a fashion event in many areas, and elegance in weaponry was de riguer. Regarding the possible presence of shellguard on this example, I would think it unlikely. There does not appear to be an area of attachment to the quillon block from what I can see, and it would seem if attached otherwise, there would be remnants present . Still the ever present aperture for the chain cries out Also, in looking at this hilt, it seems that the grip reflects spiral rotation in the material, which looks more like ivory as it seems somewhat opague, perhaps after that many years of immersion. Much of it is covered by the concretion, but it doesnt seem like staghorn. If is is of the ivory, which would seem to correspond as well with the gilt type jewellery effect, then it would further secure later date. Thank you Mark for keeping the discussion going, and along with you, we'll wait for further developments. All the best, Jim

21st January 2011, 11:21 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Jim, you bring up an excellent point of what Blackbeard's sword probably really looked like in the form of a clipped falchion such as this one- http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0113-0.jpg When we look at Fernando's pic of Blackbeard above, created around the same period, note the hilt is of the grotesque animal head type. We've discussed the Houndslow type, which probably mimiced some of the early Dutch pieces, which possibly took their forms from kastanes (the Dutch EIC being in Ceylon during the Anglo-Dutch Wars certainly influenced some of their sword styles). Here are a few of similar type and of the period Blackbeard might have taken a liking to... http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0120-0.jpg http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0114-0.jpg Here is a similar style to the one found, but in silver and last quarter of the 17th century, no quillon hole- http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0124-0.jpg