Sword Found at Wreck Site of Queen Annes Revenge

M ELEY · 18th January 2011, 05:58 PM

Nice pics, Fernando. These from Exquemelin are some of my favorites. Without any question, the clamshell guarded cutlass of this period is one of the quentessential types used by pirates, but another way of looking at it is that the pirate, just like any other 'warrior tribe', carried a variety of weapons on their person at any given time. When one thinks of a samurai, they could be carrying a huge tachi, mid-size katana, plus a tanto or two. Or perhaps that day, they might have been armed with a naginata or iron fan. The point is, a pirate in particular often armed himself (or herself) with whatever they had access to. Undoubtedly, in a crew of hundreds that these floating armies encompassed, there were a variety of swords. Likewise, sometimes one type of arm was more preferable to another based on the environment. For example, you have a pic of O'Lolonais the mad-man. He was one of the true buccaneers of the 17th century. The buccaneers were unique in that they sailed the coasts of Central and South America attacking mostly land fortifications and cities of colonial Spain. Their attacks often consisted of long marches through treacherous swamps and jungles to reach their objective. One could question whether a large Sinclair saber would be practical in the thick foliage. Artists of the time period used what they knew were the most popular types of arms of the era, but not necessarily the exact ones worn by the famous. This was common even with naval officers who sat for portaits. We see British naval admirals wearing cuirass breast-plates in many of these, which was strictly for impressive effect. Finally, perhaps the lead figures such as Teach did carry the huge blades of old, but the many minions often carried what was practical.

Jim McDougall · 18th January 2011, 08:45 PM

Well put Mark, it really is interesting to try to fathom what types of swords the 'pirates' really did use. As noted there is a genuine semantics problem when describing these weapons, and excited, dramatized accounts of contemporaries certainly helped embellish the perceptions that became the romaticized figures known today. The terms hanger, cutlass and hunting sword might have all been used to describe the same weapon, and even the ficticious term scimitar came into use.

The accounts describing Blackbeards sword as a falchion, suggest it might have had some type of clipped point or exaggerated tip blade, but again, the use of these terms led to the larger than life imagined swashbuckling cutlass of pirate lore.

In the 17th century, the short and stout bladed heavy sabres known variously as 'dusagge' in Europe often had huge shell guards, many which led to the very nautical themed scallop shell type. The term often used for these due to another popularized tale is the 'Sinclair Sabre', actually a misnomer but well known just the same.

In England, the hangers about mid 17th century were those which later evolved into hunting type sabres, and often termed Hounslow swords, for the location in England where expatriate Solingen swordsmiths made them. These were the heavier bladed swords often with varying types of shellguards and the pommels with a cap and snouted effect, and knuckleguard. By later in the century, many of these type swords were being made in another German associated enterprise at Shotley Bridge, also near London. Many of these are known with the familiar running wolf mark, and often they are seen which sawtooth backs on the blade. As hunting hangers, these were believed to be used in the drsssing of game.

By the later part of the 17th century, the heavy shellguard 'cutlasses' or hangers or Sinclair sabres, or whatever they were called....had given way in large part to the lighter staghorn grip hangers we are discussing in England and America at least. The variety of weapons used with vessels of other countries of course would be inclusive of whatever edged weapons were available, and serve the purposes required.

Heavy bladed, short sabres were of course well placed in the jungle or thick brush environment described, and this is how the espada ancha evolved in New Spain in the 18th century, becoming the machete by the 19th and to present times.

The pirates were all about psychological effect, and Im sure that a sword with a formidable looking blade would have presented a threatening image, so that might have come in to degree. But for the most part, these guys seem to have tried to avoid actual combat. It really is interesting to imagine just how theatrical these figures really were, not much different than today with all of the bizarre appearance and festooning with tattoos we see in everyday culture.

Many of the 'pirates' were actually at one time likely actually sailors whether aboard royal ships, or aboard merchant vessels. In many cases piracy was practiced under the umbrella of the 'letter of marque' where they were authorized to prey upon enemy shipping by thier sovereign. This rather unorthodox license to outlaw behavior often became misinterpreted, and with unfortunate results, as in the case of the 'notorious' Captain Kidd.

While many of the pirates may have been 'rabble' and unfamiliar with any kind of swordplay, many of these seasoned veterans must have had some degree of experience and were probably valuable in sharing thier practical knowledge among crews.

You're right Mark, it is fun to talk pirates again !!

attached are a 'dusagge' or Sinclair sabre and Captain Kidd

All best regards,
Jim

M ELEY · 19th January 2011, 01:53 PM

Hello gents, sorry I was away for awhile.

Jim, you bring up an excellent point concerning the evolution of the espada, from its ealy broad-bladed beginning to the classic forms of the later 19th century. It brings back the argument for me concerning the Brazilian espada cutlass we've discussed as far as practicality of it being a true horseman's saber vs a possible naval sword. I don't wish to digress from the present discussion, so I'll save that one for another time-

I am in agreement that after carefully perusing through Neumann, Gilkerson, Moore, Wilkinson-Latham, etc, you are spot-on that the style of this sword is probably too late for our time period. The ONLY example I did find, as mentioned, was in Soutwick with hall-marks around 1690. The hilt on it matched ours, but no drilled quillon hole. Likewise, as you point out, this style of sword had not really caught on yet.

The one quesion I'm not so sure of is whether this example might have had a shell-guard at one time? Looking back over the records, the QAR divers found the guard quite a bit earlier and this hilt in September, 2010. There is no absolute conclusion that they are from the same sword, per say. Anyway, just thinking aloud.

The Outer Banks are truly the Graveyard of the Atlantic and this hilt could easily have been from another wreck. It would be interesting to see the evolution of these hangers, though, from examples presented from earliest to latest period. Many of the previously mentioned books show examples, but not in descending order, nor encompassing the periods from hangers via 1650 to 1850. The earliest indeed had shell-guards and side plates, with very rough bumpy stag grips. Later examples had smooth, sanded stag, and in the 1770s on, were see the stained green and sometimes other garish stained colored grips. The 19th century forms of true hunting swords/hirshfangers still had shell guards and stag grips, emulating all those earlier forms, but the fittings were very straight/linier, with much decoration to the hilts/blades. Annis indicates that with the 18th c. hangers, it seemed that the plainer, unmarked versions were more popular with naval-men, with perhaps only an etched anchor on the blade.

Hopefully, more may turn up on this wreck to get a clearer picture of what Blackbeard and his crew might have really carried.

Jim McDougall · 19th January 2011, 06:10 PM

Hi Mark,
Thank you so much for responding! It appears we are indeed a limited crew still interested in pirates and things nautical, yo ho ho

so its great that you and I can discuss this intriguing topic.

Thanks for the note on the espada, and that would be a great subject to review futher under separate cover.

I want to emphasize again that I am in no way questioning the QAR wreck, nor its identity as Blackbeards ship. I personally believe that it is, and the only element of doubt is present simply because from an empirical standpoint, there can be no conclusive declaration issued without finite proof. At this point even with the staggering volume of artifacts found, there are none that can be unequivocally attributed to the QAR, only circumstantially. David Moore is a brilliant and intrepid nautical archaeology scholar, and I believe that one day he will find the proof he needs. It seems strange saying this as when he and I talked back when the wreck project began in 1996, I wished him well thinking it would be just a short time until proof was found.

Even with this sword hilt, I honestly wanted it to be from QAR. As I mentioned before, I had pestered these guys for years to 'find me some swords!, and teased them because they kept dragging up cannons.
With this hilt, it is amazing how a simple deliberate hole in a quillon can be so monumental in placing estimated date on a hilt, but these kinds of details are often key. I can recall one of the projects related to wreck diving involved the screws in the hilt elements, and establishing some chronology there.

I think probably one of the most confounding things in strategic excavation of a wreck site must be the debris deposited into the field of the site during storms and current deviations. With these kinds of conditions there must be considerable degree of movement of strata carrying with it various materials and items. In this, I really have been playing devils advocate, and hoped that somewhere out there among readers there might be someone who knew of provenanced examples of swords with the chainguard feature in earlier period than I was finding.

As I noted, in the many references I checked, all by recognized authorities on edged weapons, all indications have been that the chainguard was an element that became popular as the hunting sword became a 'degenerate court sword', as derisively described by Bashford Dean in 1929. By the mid 18th century, the hunt had devolved largely into a fashion event in many areas, and elegance in weaponry was de riguer.

Regarding the possible presence of shellguard on this example, I would think it unlikely. There does not appear to be an area of attachment to the quillon block from what I can see, and it would seem if attached otherwise, there would be remnants present . Still the ever present aperture for the chain cries out

Also, in looking at this hilt, it seems that the grip reflects spiral rotation in the material, which looks more like ivory as it seems somewhat opague, perhaps after that many years of immersion. Much of it is covered by the concretion, but it doesnt seem like staghorn. If is is of the ivory, which would seem to correspond as well with the gilt type jewellery effect, then it would further secure later date.

Thank you Mark for keeping the discussion going, and along with you, we'll wait for further developments.

All the best,
Jim

M ELEY · 21st January 2011, 11:21 AM

Jim, you bring up an excellent point of what Blackbeard's sword probably really looked like in the form of a clipped falchion such as this one-

http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0113-0.jpg

When we look at Fernando's pic of Blackbeard above, created around the same period, note the hilt is of the grotesque animal head type. We've discussed the Houndslow type, which probably mimiced some of the early Dutch pieces, which possibly took their forms from kastanes (the Dutch EIC being in Ceylon during the Anglo-Dutch Wars certainly influenced some of their sword styles). Here are a few of similar type and of the period Blackbeard might have taken a liking to...

http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0120-0.jpg
http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0114-0.jpg

Here is a similar style to the one found, but in silver and last quarter of the 17th century, no quillon hole-

http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0124-0.jpg

18th January 2011, 08:45 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Well put Mark, it really is interesting to try to fathom what types of swords the 'pirates' really did use. As noted there is a genuine semantics problem when describing these weapons, and excited, dramatized accounts of contemporaries certainly helped embellish the perceptions that became the romaticized figures known today. The terms hanger, cutlass and hunting sword might have all been used to describe the same weapon, and even the ficticious term scimitar came into use. The accounts describing Blackbeards sword as a falchion, suggest it might have had some type of clipped point or exaggerated tip blade, but again, the use of these terms led to the larger than life imagined swashbuckling cutlass of pirate lore. In the 17th century, the short and stout bladed heavy sabres known variously as 'dusagge' in Europe often had huge shell guards, many which led to the very nautical themed scallop shell type. The term often used for these due to another popularized tale is the 'Sinclair Sabre', actually a misnomer but well known just the same. In England, the hangers about mid 17th century were those which later evolved into hunting type sabres, and often termed Hounslow swords, for the location in England where expatriate Solingen swordsmiths made them. These were the heavier bladed swords often with varying types of shellguards and the pommels with a cap and snouted effect, and knuckleguard. By later in the century, many of these type swords were being made in another German associated enterprise at Shotley Bridge, also near London. Many of these are known with the familiar running wolf mark, and often they are seen which sawtooth backs on the blade. As hunting hangers, these were believed to be used in the drsssing of game. By the later part of the 17th century, the heavy shellguard 'cutlasses' or hangers or Sinclair sabres, or whatever they were called....had given way in large part to the lighter staghorn grip hangers we are discussing in England and America at least. The variety of weapons used with vessels of other countries of course would be inclusive of whatever edged weapons were available, and serve the purposes required. Heavy bladed, short sabres were of course well placed in the jungle or thick brush environment described, and this is how the espada ancha evolved in New Spain in the 18th century, becoming the machete by the 19th and to present times. The pirates were all about psychological effect, and Im sure that a sword with a formidable looking blade would have presented a threatening image, so that might have come in to degree. But for the most part, these guys seem to have tried to avoid actual combat. It really is interesting to imagine just how theatrical these figures really were, not much different than today with all of the bizarre appearance and festooning with tattoos we see in everyday culture. Many of the 'pirates' were actually at one time likely actually sailors whether aboard royal ships, or aboard merchant vessels. In many cases piracy was practiced under the umbrella of the 'letter of marque' where they were authorized to prey upon enemy shipping by thier sovereign. This rather unorthodox license to outlaw behavior often became misinterpreted, and with unfortunate results, as in the case of the 'notorious' Captain Kidd. While many of the pirates may have been 'rabble' and unfamiliar with any kind of swordplay, many of these seasoned veterans must have had some degree of experience and were probably valuable in sharing thier practical knowledge among crews. You're right Mark, it is fun to talk pirates again !! attached are a 'dusagge' or Sinclair sabre and Captain Kidd All best regards, Jim Attached Images

18th January 2011, 05:58 PM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Nice pics, Fernando. These from Exquemelin are some of my favorites. Without any question, the clamshell guarded cutlass of this period is one of the quentessential types used by pirates, but another way of looking at it is that the pirate, just like any other 'warrior tribe', carried a variety of weapons on their person at any given time. When one thinks of a samurai, they could be carrying a huge tachi, mid-size katana, plus a tanto or two. Or perhaps that day, they might have been armed with a naginata or iron fan. The point is, a pirate in particular often armed himself (or herself) with whatever they had access to. Undoubtedly, in a crew of hundreds that these floating armies encompassed, there were a variety of swords. Likewise, sometimes one type of arm was more preferable to another based on the environment. For example, you have a pic of O'Lolonais the mad-man. He was one of the true buccaneers of the 17th century. The buccaneers were unique in that they sailed the coasts of Central and South America attacking mostly land fortifications and cities of colonial Spain. Their attacks often consisted of long marches through treacherous swamps and jungles to reach their objective. One could question whether a large Sinclair saber would be practical in the thick foliage. Artists of the time period used what they knew were the most popular types of arms of the era, but not necessarily the exact ones worn by the famous. This was common even with naval officers who sat for portaits. We see British naval admirals wearing cuirass breast-plates in many of these, which was strictly for impressive effect. Finally, perhaps the lead figures such as Teach did carry the huge blades of old, but the many minions often carried what was practical.

19th January 2011, 01:53 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Hello gents, sorry I was away for awhile. Jim, you bring up an excellent point concerning the evolution of the espada, from its ealy broad-bladed beginning to the classic forms of the later 19th century. It brings back the argument for me concerning the Brazilian espada cutlass we've discussed as far as practicality of it being a true horseman's saber vs a possible naval sword. I don't wish to digress from the present discussion, so I'll save that one for another time- I am in agreement that after carefully perusing through Neumann, Gilkerson, Moore, Wilkinson-Latham, etc, you are spot-on that the style of this sword is probably too late for our time period. The ONLY example I did find, as mentioned, was in Soutwick with hall-marks around 1690. The hilt on it matched ours, but no drilled quillon hole. Likewise, as you point out, this style of sword had not really caught on yet. The one quesion I'm not so sure of is whether this example might have had a shell-guard at one time? Looking back over the records, the QAR divers found the guard quite a bit earlier and this hilt in September, 2010. There is no absolute conclusion that they are from the same sword, per say. Anyway, just thinking aloud. The Outer Banks are truly the Graveyard of the Atlantic and this hilt could easily have been from another wreck. It would be interesting to see the evolution of these hangers, though, from examples presented from earliest to latest period. Many of the previously mentioned books show examples, but not in descending order, nor encompassing the periods from hangers via 1650 to 1850. The earliest indeed had shell-guards and side plates, with very rough bumpy stag grips. Later examples had smooth, sanded stag, and in the 1770s on, were see the stained green and sometimes other garish stained colored grips. The 19th century forms of true hunting swords/hirshfangers still had shell guards and stag grips, emulating all those earlier forms, but the fittings were very straight/linier, with much decoration to the hilts/blades. Annis indicates that with the 18th c. hangers, it seemed that the plainer, unmarked versions were more popular with naval-men, with perhaps only an etched anchor on the blade. Hopefully, more may turn up on this wreck to get a clearer picture of what Blackbeard and his crew might have really carried.

19th January 2011, 06:10 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Mark, Thank you so much for responding! It appears we are indeed a limited crew still interested in pirates and things nautical, yo ho ho so its great that you and I can discuss this intriguing topic. Thanks for the note on the espada, and that would be a great subject to review futher under separate cover. I want to emphasize again that I am in no way questioning the QAR wreck, nor its identity as Blackbeards ship. I personally believe that it is, and the only element of doubt is present simply because from an empirical standpoint, there can be no conclusive declaration issued without finite proof. At this point even with the staggering volume of artifacts found, there are none that can be unequivocally attributed to the QAR, only circumstantially. David Moore is a brilliant and intrepid nautical archaeology scholar, and I believe that one day he will find the proof he needs. It seems strange saying this as when he and I talked back when the wreck project began in 1996, I wished him well thinking it would be just a short time until proof was found. Even with this sword hilt, I honestly wanted it to be from QAR. As I mentioned before, I had pestered these guys for years to 'find me some swords!, and teased them because they kept dragging up cannons. With this hilt, it is amazing how a simple deliberate hole in a quillon can be so monumental in placing estimated date on a hilt, but these kinds of details are often key. I can recall one of the projects related to wreck diving involved the screws in the hilt elements, and establishing some chronology there. I think probably one of the most confounding things in strategic excavation of a wreck site must be the debris deposited into the field of the site during storms and current deviations. With these kinds of conditions there must be considerable degree of movement of strata carrying with it various materials and items. In this, I really have been playing devils advocate, and hoped that somewhere out there among readers there might be someone who knew of provenanced examples of swords with the chainguard feature in earlier period than I was finding. As I noted, in the many references I checked, all by recognized authorities on edged weapons, all indications have been that the chainguard was an element that became popular as the hunting sword became a 'degenerate court sword', as derisively described by Bashford Dean in 1929. By the mid 18th century, the hunt had devolved largely into a fashion event in many areas, and elegance in weaponry was de riguer. Regarding the possible presence of shellguard on this example, I would think it unlikely. There does not appear to be an area of attachment to the quillon block from what I can see, and it would seem if attached otherwise, there would be remnants present . Still the ever present aperture for the chain cries out Also, in looking at this hilt, it seems that the grip reflects spiral rotation in the material, which looks more like ivory as it seems somewhat opague, perhaps after that many years of immersion. Much of it is covered by the concretion, but it doesnt seem like staghorn. If is is of the ivory, which would seem to correspond as well with the gilt type jewellery effect, then it would further secure later date. Thank you Mark for keeping the discussion going, and along with you, we'll wait for further developments. All the best, Jim

21st January 2011, 11:21 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Jim, you bring up an excellent point of what Blackbeard's sword probably really looked like in the form of a clipped falchion such as this one- http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0113-0.jpg When we look at Fernando's pic of Blackbeard above, created around the same period, note the hilt is of the grotesque animal head type. We've discussed the Houndslow type, which probably mimiced some of the early Dutch pieces, which possibly took their forms from kastanes (the Dutch EIC being in Ceylon during the Anglo-Dutch Wars certainly influenced some of their sword styles). Here are a few of similar type and of the period Blackbeard might have taken a liking to... http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0120-0.jpg http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0114-0.jpg Here is a similar style to the one found, but in silver and last quarter of the 17th century, no quillon hole- http://www.thomasdelmar.com/Catalogu.../lot0124-0.jpg