|
|
|
13th January 2011, 11:31 AM
|
#1 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG)
Posts: 1,142
|
Quote:
 my sweet translator has a print out of the pic, and she's facing some difficulties - hand engraving (not too good) in old arabic - short part of a poem - here in France, we don't have a computer with Arabic system, the search is much more complicated - might be our answer 'll be doubtful, unfortunatly  à + Dom |
|
|
|
|
13th January 2011, 02:30 PM
|
#2 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,658
|
Hi Dave,
congrats....nice Kaskara. Are there any makers marks near the hilt ? The diamond patterning is similar to one of mine. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...hlight=kaskara Kind Regards David |
|
|
|
|
13th January 2011, 09:53 PM
|
#3 |
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 327
|
Hi David: No, unfortunately there are no makers marks or any other marks of
any kind except the script. The blade is 35 inches long with a single wide fuller extending the full length to the tip. The blade is also very flexible. Even though there are no makers marks i believe it to probably be German made, based on the quality of the blade. I have nothing to base this on other than a hunch. We bought this sword over twenty years ago. The scabbard is of the highest quality that one usually sees with this type of handle and blade, but unfortunately the main carry strap is in bad shape. The main reason that we trying to get a translation is because an arab historian that we took this sword to told us that one side translated to being the geneolgy of Ali Dinar. At the time, this meant nothing to us, but now knowing a little bit of the history of the area it is much more meaningfull. The other side of the blade he was not able to translate but since then another person said that it reads as follows "WHEN THEY RIDE ON THE BACKS OF THEIR HORSES THEY ARE EXTREMELY DETERMINED AND COURAGES". This Historian then offered us a large amount of money for the sword, which basically blew us away. I don't know if this is an Ali Dinar sword or not. I think you people here might have some insight in helping us identify more about this sword...........Dave and Lonna. |
|
|
|
|
14th January 2011, 01:09 AM
|
#4 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,658
|
Quote:
the possible Ali Dinar association with this sword would indeed be great news. The diamond design seems unusual on Kaskara hilts. With the provenanced sword at Durham University (in the linked thread) having the diamond motif. Yours, with the diamond patterning and hopefully, a genuine engraving attributable to Ali Dinar' family ....makes mine even more likely to be from the court of Ali Dinar ....or family. Hopefully, more research/information on this 'diamond design' may help to 'cement' this association. Kind Regards David |
|
|
|
|
|
14th January 2011, 03:56 AM
|
#5 |
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 327
|
David: Yes, it would be great if we could finally attribute this kaskara to
Ali Dinar. We have at least three more silver-hilted kaskaras that we hope- fully will be able to post in the future. Two of the three have european blades that are layered damascus. Another kaskara has one end of it,s crossguard engraved backwards "Ali" with a date of i think 1896 though i'm not sure of the exact date. It was used to seal important documents with sealing wax..........Dave |
|
|
|
|
14th January 2011, 05:23 AM
|
#6 |
|
Arms Historian
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,475
|
This is indeed a kaskara from Darfur, and likely of the period of Ali Dinar (Ali Dinar Zakariyya Muhammed al Fadl, 1856-1916). Actually the kaskaras with this hilt form with discoid pommel with filagree edges, domed pommel cap and silver repousse grip with 'harlequin' or diamond pattern motif are quite well established during Ali Dinars reign (1898-1916) and described as such in "Kaskara From Northern Darfur, Sudan" (Graham Reed, JAAS, Vol.XII, #3, March, 1987).
Ali Dinar was of the Keira Dynasty of rulers, and of Tama descent, with that monarchy suspended after the Egyptian conquest in 1874. After the Mahdists defeat at Omdurman in 1898, a de facto state was formed in Darfur with him as the Sultan, and the British appointed him agent for them. Ali Dinar was however of the Senussi Brotherhood, who was powerfully in league with the Ottomans and Germans and Turkish governors in Benghazi. As WWI came in 1914, the intrigue with Senussi following and the German alliance with the Ottomans naturally led eventually to Ali Dinar being declared outlaw as he led insurgencies against the British. A British punitive expedition was mounted, with Ali Dinar being killed near Jebel Mara in Central Darfur October 7th, 1916. The only known photograph of Ali Dinar was at his death (attached). I did research on one of these kaskara attributed also to having come from the armoury of Ali Dinar about 11 years ago. It was of course of the distinct form, the characteristic X on the crossguard, flared quillons, harlequin repousse grip and filagree discoid pommel. There was the usual puff type festoon attached around the pommel base. In "Introduction to Islamic Arms" by Anthony North, p.30 (fig. 23 B) there is a kaskara attributed to Ali Dinar, which has gold grip in this pattern and the blade is heirloom believed of 18th c. This is also believed to be one of three possible swords which may have been his, and probably the one listed as Victoria & Albert Museum. In checking with Mr. North, he stated the sword was with its owner in Malaysia at that point. Another of Dinars swords is said to be Royal Armouries Inv. XXVI.112S, and I do not have further notes on that. The other is at the British Museum (#1932, 10-14.1) but is believed captured at Omdurman and of the Ali Dinar 'style'. I interviewed a man who was a Fur, and now in the U.S. and actually knew one of Ali Dinars grandsons, but as Dinar had 120 sons, the grandson had little information to add to the research when I spoke to him by phone. Returning to the Darfur kaskara at hand, the etched devotional panel on the blade is most interesting and it will be great to hear more on translation. I believe the blade on this may more likely be of Italian origin as many of these Darfur blades seem to have been (Reed, fig. L1 notes a possible Italian orig.). This would seem quite likely as the Senussi contacts in the branches in Libya would have had considerable contact with Italian trade with the occupying forces there. In my opinion, these type kaskaras were widely produced in this period, but in this quality it is of course supposed that these would have been for prominant tribal leaders and chiefs (Omda). It would be presumed that many of these weapons would have carried inscriptions pertaining to Ali Dinar, and would not necessarily be his weapons, but associated with him and his forces. Regardless, these kaskaras are in my opinion the most desirable, especially when they can be attributed to this form and of the period. Best regards, Jim |
|
|
|
|
14th January 2011, 02:47 PM
|
#7 |
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kent
Posts: 2,658
|
Hi Jim
 ,Glad you added to this thread. You mentioned "....'harlequin' or diamond pattern motif are quite well established during Ali Dinars reign (1898-1916) and described as such in "Kaskara From Northern Darfur, Sudan" (Graham Reed, JAAS, Vol.XII, #3, March, 1987)...." Is there any indication that the diamond pattern was exclusively used during Ali Dinar's reign....or perhaps, evidence of the source or symbolism of the design ? Kind Regards David |
|
|
|
|
23rd January 2011, 12:46 AM
|
#8 | |
|
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 63
|
Quote:
Did you get any further with Durham? I should add that their Ali Dinar kaskara is probably the best provenenanced, in that it was donated by the alumnus who shot him (or more realistically, oversaw his shooting)... |
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
