Taming Sari???

[David]

Originally Posted by Neo

Well, actually my question was not whether or not it was the actual Taming Sari

I am more interested in whether or not that jangkung (?) keris with fancy cucumber hilt is the one that the Perak Sultanate CLAIMS to be Taming Sari. It is more about their IDEA of Taming Sari, how it would look like ... let's just assume for a second that the Sultanate tailored the story and the actual Taming Sari was lost in the river. Then, logically, the Sultan would be most likely to commission for a keris that looks as close as possible to the actual Taming Sari from his memory, not something that he fancied of having.

I don't think anyone suggested that this was your original question Neo. Still it bares some examining and if there was any solid evidence that it is the original it would in fact answer your question. It doesn't seem possible however to prove this, so as Amuk suggests, it's a matter of faith.
I do think that you need to put your time frame into perspective though. It would appear that this keris did not come into the possession of the Sultans until the late 19th century at the earliest. It was apparently in the family of the Admiralty for generations before, or so the story goes. So while this may or may not be the actual mythical blade i doubt that the Sultan had it commissioned and then started telling people it was Taming Sari and i doubt that he would have any idea what the actual blade was supposed to look like anyway as it was made and had it's legendary existence centuries before that time.

[Neo]

It would appear that this keris did not come into the possession of the Sultans until the late 19th century at the earliest. It was apparently in the family of the Admiralty for generations before, or so the story goes.

Interesting ... Could you tell me the source of this information? I have an open-minded friend in Malaysia who is obsessed with Taming Sari and Hang Tuah ... He will devour this info

Amuk Murugul: Thanks. Saw that page before, but I overlooked the fact that the url is from the Perak Sultanate. So that is one official source.

[David]

Originally Posted by Neo

Interesting ... Could you tell me the source of this information?

Neo, did you not read the link i gave you in my first response to you?

It's not a very large article, but here is the pertinent information from it:

"Before the Taming Sari became part of the Perak Royalty's regalia, it is believed to have been a hereditary article of the family of the Laksamana (Navy Admiral) who for generations, through succession, ruled as the territorial chief of Hilir Perak.
It is believed that the last territorial chief who had the famed keris in his possession was Laksamana Mohd Amin Alang Duakap. In 1876, he was arrested alongside many other rich aristocrats of his time for the alleged involvement in the murder of the first British Resident, James W.W. Birch. Together with Datuk Shahbandar Uda Kediti (the territorial chief of Kerian), Sultan Abdullah (the reigning Perak monarch of the time) and Menteri Paduka Ngah Ibrahim (the famous administrator of tin-rich Larut), Laksamana Mohd Amin was banished to the Seychelles.
After that, the British administration in Perak seized the properties of the territorial chiefs involved and these included the Taming Sari. However, the Sultan Yussuf, who succeeded the banished Sultan Abdullah, persuaded the British not to take the keris away to England[citation needed] and managed to gain possession of the keris."

[Neo]

Sorry Boss, my bad
I've visited that Wiki page many times over but always quickly scanned that laksamana part without ever arriving at the conclusion "oh, the Sultanate did not have it until then".
DOH!

[David]

Now keep in mind that the Wiki article itself lacks any citation of source, so who is to say where the write got their information...

[A. G. Maisey]

This comment is not directly targetted at the keris under discussion, but is more in the nature of a general comment on the authenticity of all keris & etc claimed as pusaka.

I suggest a detailed and attentive reading of both Weiner and Ricklefs.

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I suggest a detailed and attentive reading of both Weiner and Ricklefs.

Good advice indeed. Can you tell us if there is any particular book of M.C. Ricklefs' that you recommend first as he has written extensively on the area?