Federalist sword

[M ELEY]

My example seems to have either a copper guard or perhaps rose brass. It's interesting to note that the American dragoons of the Rev War period used swords that were iron slot hilts, so this pattern became exclusive to the time just after the conflict, but was disgarded after the turn of the century apparently. As the cavalry units of this time were not truly government-sanctioned, they functioned more like the National Guard, with each member responsible for his own uniform/equipment. They were called out during this time period for the Whiskey Rebellion and for several major conflicts with warring Native American tribes. I think this was a very interesting period in history and I'm glad to add it to the collection, even though it is not a "nautical" piece. Comments welcome. Anyone know what the initials scratched into it might be?

[Hotspur]

Interesting slot

I was prompted by a recent addition of my own and some searching out color ensembles has led me to understand the U.S. cavalry a bit more organized than simple militia without uniforms. Certainly during the revolution there were uniformed troopers by the height of the conflict. While I can't be certain this plank carving represents the green and red of the 4th light dragoons organized at the behest of Washington, the only other color combination that seems to fit would be Austrian. This came out of California, so who knows where it's life began. Here are a couple of quick snaps. So, maybe.

http://fourthdragoons.com/History.html

My Virginia heritage also relates to early militia cavalry stuff

Cheers

GC

[M ELEY]

Wow, Hotspur, pretty incredible wood-cut you have there. Yes, the uniforms and distinctive "Tarleton helmet" bespoke of the pride these men had in their regiments. Thank you so much for the link to that site as well. The 4th Dragoons were at Yorktown to my understanding. I'm just now reading up on some of the other divisions, especially those associated with Philadelphia (where this sword was made) and am enjoying the research on this early period of American history. Hats off to your Virginia heritage as well, sir!

Although not from NC originally, I've lived here for over 20 years and am a stone's throw from Guilford Courthouse (Nathanial Greene's great Rev War battle) and just an hour or so from the CowPens battlefield. Thanks for posting!

[Hotspur]

I had a long post building (then lost it) from other sources regarding cast brass hilts but in going through Peterson, Neumann, Bazelon, both Mowbray's along with Flayderman's Medicus; There really is no indication that the sword hilt (or complete venture) was made in America, nor that it was a regulation pattern.

Brass was not at all as common on the American scene of casting because of availability and not until Prahl's cast hilts of the turn of the century do we even see those. There is much more evidence that the cast lion hilts were of European manufacture. There was a severe lack of imported brass for the American's during the later war of 1812 but even back to the wide expanses of horseman's sabers of earlier decades, even the lion pommel variations were less common amongst many lists and indeed by the authors listed above. In the Medicus collection pages regarding the lions of the 18th century, 3 out of four were English made and slotted hilts. The one listed as American is a more complex half basket. None of those with cast grips. Neumann lists one cast gripped lion hilt but leaves origin of the maker open. Bazelon's collection of PA book has a very nice brief of Prahl's revolution contracts of 1776 and later. None until the smooth brass cast grips of the later period are listed as animal forms at all.

The Philly light history I have more notes for here and there but the 4th light of the revolution inducted in that area and initiated there as a regional muster as it were with Maryland, Virginia and Deleware also sending troops that direction.

The Peterson example which is quite like yours and etched to both the owner and the Philly's was/is much more likely to be an officer;'s private purchase than a standardized pattern. The Phral contracts of 1776 while not being well described in the brief bios are regarded somewhat in the much more common iron hillted stirrup type hussar varieties later transitioning to the balled grips and rounded dove head, European influenced again. Neumann and the Medicus title put these more standardized patterns in my mind as prevalent, whether slots, wagon wheels or the simple stirrups.

Long excuse short I think it more likely it is of European manufacture than Philadelphia or the rest of the east coast at that time line. Less refined pommels and guards, surely but I honestly can't suspect the cast grips as U.S. made.

Cheers

GC

[M ELEY]

I agree whole-heartedly with the premise that these swords were private purchase for officers of the "light horse" corps, but I think the jury is still out as far as to whether these lion-hilts were all made in Europe and exported to the states. The excellent article in the Man-At-Arms magazine studied numerous types of this exact sword and did extensive research (which was backed by Norm Flayderman) that perhaps earlier swords were European-made, but that the Philadephia craftsmen soon came into their own in the latter part of the 18th century. The article had several examples with Phila silversmiths whose names appear on the hilts. Likewise, it was widely known that solid brass hilted cavalry sabers were discouraged in Europe as it was found that blood or sweat made holding onto the hilt difficult in battle. Never-the-less, we see Prahl carrying on this tradition of solid-brass hilts in the later eagle-head swords. Finally (keep in mind I'm going by memory as I don't have the article in hand) the author noted that brass, although not easily accessible, could have been manufactured in small quantities here for private purchase swords (less common after all) and the cost of shipping the brass hilts from over-seas would have been cost-prohibitive as it wasn't valued over-seas. He made several other astute points which I will review when I have time. Then there is the primativeness of the pieces to consider, resembling their Rev War predecessors. In short, I think it is at least possible that these were the start to the brass-hilt swords that were to come.

[Hotspur]

It is the somewhat contradictory premise introduced in your first post that prompts more source and research work.

This scarce type described in Harold Peterson's "The American Sword", plate 18. Many of these types were inscribed on the blade "American light horse" for the cavalry dragoons. They were discussed at length in a Man-At-Arms article from back in 1992. This pattern sems to be the first true American sword pattern after we officially became a country.

Part of the post I lost was in regarding the massive amount of data presented in Neumann's pages listing American horseman sabers. We see one cast grip lion and the origin and maker left an unknown but does relate a European blade. In the several pages of Neumann's horseman's sabers there are indeed several lion pommel swords but pommels only attributed to American. Flayderman's Medicus book lists four lion's in a row all quite similar except for only one of those four being listed American made and three English. None of the four with cast grips.

The use of the lion pommel as iconic as well falls away in my perception as the American continentals such as Washington were not happy with the thought of the lion pommels persisting as a label for their new nation. The eagle does indeed start to pick up steam nationally by the end of the revolution and again, were does that leave the silversmiths and cutlers of New England. It is possible, yes, that cutlers did assemble and even cast full grips but the evidence really does not bear out what is first listed as scarce and then secondly regarded as the first true American pattern.

What I have found of American interpretations of lions (and later eagles, particularly the Osborn Weepers-pcay is listing a doozy of one on the bay right now) show a great deal of coarseness in the differences between texture and finish of chasing the castings and making castings from extant castings instead of producing the wax models. If Prahl is supposed to have been the source for these cast grip lions, why on earth would his eagles have appeared so primitive (along with some other Philadelphia brass casters) compared to the much more refined work going on both in Philadelphia and Baltimore silversmith shops.

Another cast lion hilt in Neumann's to consider is attached below here. I have it handy as an example of brass work from another discussion. What is listed there as French naval artillery turns out to be actually better listed as Belgian (yes?) infantry.

With the cast spiral hilts of other English and European examples then combined with lions used in many countries, determining swords with obviously European blade construct (and many so marked) the evidence kind of piles up against anything except compilations by cutlers. Bazelon and Mowbray (the elder) both share Prahl information along with the earlier Peterson notes and it may well be these later publications (as also with Neumann) are kind of on the fence toppling away from absolutes.

With that, I myself would not take an absolute stance either but might be convinced by later findings.

Note the sleekness of the two Neumann's if you have a copy handy. The cast horseman lion (not attached here) is quite like the French/Belgian shortsword grip and also quite like the Prahl blocky grip eagle version.

Cheers

GC

[Hotspur]

Regarding Peterson, I have just opened it again and the blurb for sword 18 is easy to read much into without regarding the first line. Made in Germany. The similar swords regarded there are not all meant to be cast hilts but simply of a type. It is the blade inscription of American Light Horse that is prevalent and not the cast lion hilt that is being described as common.

The Peterson dating of the Prahl eagle is speculatively outdated and updated with better information in Mowbray's eagle book.

I will admit I am one of the rookies out there and may in time find more of the old articles quite useful in their own rights but a lot has surfaced with the growth of the internet and hard publications as well. I spend an inordinate amount of time speculating regarding eagle pommels and was gearing up to supplant Mowbray the elder's eagle work and then got to reading through the younger and Flayderman assembling the Medicus book. More head scratching yet to be uncovered but the original concept of networking worked through others efforts such as Rankin and Tuite which opened my eyes even further while still leaving more to uncover.

One revelation of my own and not well published is a maker generally assumed and written to have been working in Paris. His work and family actually in Strausborg. Regarded as the mysterious Parisian. I have more to tie that one up for it to be conclusive but it was an internet find, not a book I have.

Cheers

GC

Cheers