Moro Spear

David · 20th November 2010, 02:46 AM

Oh stop it Gav, you're killin' me!

That sure is a beauty alright. Maybe the sweetest Moro spear i've seen.

BigG · 20th November 2010, 01:36 PM

Excellent restoration work. Outstanding budiak ths...

Battara · 20th November 2010, 03:26 PM

Wonderful piece! Looking like brass sleeve and butt to me.........

Nice work! Old warrior back to its former glory.

Sajen · 20th November 2010, 03:32 PM

Congratulations for this beauty and the very good restore work!

Gavin Nugent · 21st November 2010, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Oh stop it Gav, you're killin' me!

That sure is a beauty alright. Maybe the sweetest Moro spear i've seen.

Oh come on David

, just one more.....

Battara, BigG, Sajen, turned out better than I imagined.

Gav

Battara · 21st November 2010, 07:03 AM

Yes, definitely brass sleeve. Say if you ever throw it in the trash, let me know so that I can come by and unburden you.

tunggulametung · 21st November 2010, 02:52 PM

Since Bangsa Moro is great sailor, I think this hook on the butt cap is useful for spearfishing (still practiced in Indonesia). The rope can be secured to the collar to like on Lee's example. Just an idea.

Two of the pictures come from here

David · 21st November 2010, 03:10 PM

I don't believe that this was ever intended for spear fishing. The spearhead is all wrong and would not be efficient for keeping the catch on the spear.

tunggulametung · 21st November 2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I don't believe that this was ever intended for spear fishing. The spearhead is all wrong and would not be efficient for keeping the catch on the spear.

Me too. I agree about the shape of the head, it is too fancy as well. But ritual and belief system sometime goes beyond that. I just try to go outside of the box and think. So how about water/boat fight? I think I read somewhere that Bangsa Moro is a good fighter both on land and water?

tunggulametung · 21st November 2010, 04:28 PM

Sorry, two letter Kaf (K) on the first line should read Ain

Gavin Nugent · 22nd November 2010, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Me too. I agree about the shape of the head, it is too fancy as well. But ritual and belief system sometime goes beyond that. I just try to go outside of the box and think. So how about water/boat fight? I think I read somewhere that Bangsa Moro is a good fighter both on land and water?

Hi Tunggulametung,

Thank you for showing the hunting images.

After seeing these it is apparent to me that the pole of these spears are just not strong enough to support hunting of even a smaller sea creature.
The ones pictured are far thicker and are shafts of harpoons that pull off after the head impacts...see the ropes are attached to the iron ends in the whale.
What you note about a boat fight however does hold my interest as you would certainly want your spear back to throw again as chances are boats may never actually come together in these conflicts but always keep a distance.
Thanks too for the translation notations provided in the image.

Gav

Rick · 22nd November 2010, 01:29 AM

I read once in one of Hurley's books (I believe) that the sea raiders had smaller spears which could be thrown by the handfull when approaching another vessel in order to keep the enemy crew disorganised until boarding .

Not so sure about the usefulness of a full sized spear on a fighting Prau .

If you look closely at the hafts of the harpoons shown in the pictures you'll notice they are quite long (12 foot plus) and thick .

tunggulametung · 21st November 2010, 03:42 PM

As for the translation, I can't help much. We need to limit which language is most likely used here. Tausug? Yakan? Maguindanao? Maranao? what else is probable? I don't speak any of these languages nor within knowledge how differ the vocabulary, I understand that some if not many of them are interchangeable, even to Malay but I believe there are times when they are greatly differ.

I believe when we are speaking about older days, spelling is not really matter, the most important is how they sound and how someone can give meaning to that sound. So if we are looking for the translation on dictionary, we have to try on more than one word for greater possibilities. And of course getting it translated by someone who speak the language is better because they can translate it not only word by word but by the whole idea. Sorry can't express it in shorter word

.

I generally agree with Big if we speak from Malay point of view as I will go here, these might be far from valid (given the language differences above) but I'll just try here to give a perspective. On the first line, first letter is unreadable to me (but might be significant). I don't read any "datu", only "tu" which can be a shorter form of "untuk" (for), next maybe "kami" (us), then "hasil" (result/in return-exchange for), on the second line I speculate it will be "nakar kan datu hasim" because I will put "waw" (u) after "nun" (n) if I want to go "nukarkan" (to exchange) but again spelling doesn't matter anyway ... google says "nakar" is pearl in tagalog? maybe close/similarities with languages down south? "kan" sound familiar, common suffix in malay, also shorther form of "akan" (will be) etc.. but I believe have different meaning in Moro Land. This is my best try, I hope someone who speak the language can translate it, would be exciting to know what it read in the end. Sorry if I read the Jawi in error I'm not fluent. Congrats for this outstanding budiak (or whatever the original owner call it)!

21st November 2010, 02:52 PM	#7
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Since Bangsa Moro is great sailor, I think this hook on the butt cap is useful for spearfishing (still practiced in Indonesia). The rope can be secured to the collar to like on Lee's example. Just an idea. Two of the pictures come from here Attached Images

21st November 2010, 03:42 PM	#13
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	As for the translation, I can't help much. We need to limit which language is most likely used here. Tausug? Yakan? Maguindanao? Maranao? what else is probable? I don't speak any of these languages nor within knowledge how differ the vocabulary, I understand that some if not many of them are interchangeable, even to Malay but I believe there are times when they are greatly differ. I believe when we are speaking about older days, spelling is not really matter, the most important is how they sound and how someone can give meaning to that sound. So if we are looking for the translation on dictionary, we have to try on more than one word for greater possibilities. And of course getting it translated by someone who speak the language is better because they can translate it not only word by word but by the whole idea. Sorry can't express it in shorter word . I generally agree with Big if we speak from Malay point of view as I will go here, these might be far from valid (given the language differences above) but I'll just try here to give a perspective. On the first line, first letter is unreadable to me (but might be significant). I don't read any "datu", only "tu" which can be a shorter form of "untuk" (for), next maybe "kami" (us), then "hasil" (result/in return-exchange for), on the second line I speculate it will be "nakar kan datu hasim" because I will put "waw" (u) after "nun" (n) if I want to go "nukarkan" (to exchange) but again spelling doesn't matter anyway ... google says "nakar" is pearl in tagalog? maybe close/similarities with languages down south? "kan" sound familiar, common suffix in malay, also shorther form of "akan" (will be) etc.. but I believe have different meaning in Moro Land. This is my best try, I hope someone who speak the language can translate it, would be exciting to know what it read in the end. Sorry if I read the Jawi in error I'm not fluent. Congrats for this outstanding budiak (or whatever the original owner call it)! Attached Images

20th November 2010, 02:46 AM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Oh stop it Gav, you're killin' me! That sure is a beauty alright. Maybe the sweetest Moro spear i've seen.

20th November 2010, 01:36 PM	#2
BigG Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Singapore Posts: 75	Excellent restoration work. Outstanding budiak ths...

20th November 2010, 03:26 PM	#3
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Wonderful piece! Looking like brass sleeve and butt to me......... Nice work! Old warrior back to its former glory.

20th November 2010, 03:32 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,164	Congratulations for this beauty and the very good restore work!

21st November 2010, 07:03 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Yes, definitely brass sleeve. Say if you ever throw it in the trash, let me know so that I can come by and unburden you.

21st November 2010, 03:10 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	I don't believe that this was ever intended for spear fishing. The spearhead is all wrong and would not be efficient for keeping the catch on the spear.

21st November 2010, 04:28 PM	#10
tunggulametung Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 238	Sorry, two letter Kaf (K) on the first line should read Ain

22nd November 2010, 01:29 AM	#12
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	I read once in one of Hurley's books (I believe) that the sea raiders had smaller spears which could be thrown by the handfull when approaching another vessel in order to keep the enemy crew disorganised until boarding . Not so sure about the usefulness of a full sized spear on a fighting Prau . If you look closely at the hafts of the harpoons shown in the pictures you'll notice they are quite long (12 foot plus) and thick .