Stork holding a stone - coat of arms on a baroque hunting sword cuttoe

[Matchlock]

Hi there,

Although looking much the same, this bird is not a stork but a crane. In 18th century heraldry, the crane symbolized vigilance, and to make sure he didn't fall asleep he held a stone.

Gentlemen, it's all on the net and easy to find. Please use the web ...

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/birds.htm

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Hi there,

Although looking much the same, this bird is not a stork but a crane. In 18th century heraldry, the crane symbolized vigilance, and to make sure he didn't fall asleep he held a stone.

Gentlemen, it's all on the net and easy to find. Please use the web ...

http://www.heraldica.org/topics/birds.htm

Hi Michael,
Things are indeed easy to find on the web, and it would seem that Gustav found the link he furnished there, which clearly shows under storks in heraldry at least one entry holding a roundel. In the entry it is described of course as a stork, and holding a bezant. As most will notice, in the apocrypha of heraldry the descriptions and interpretations vary widely and as always, the attribution of certain arms and thier charges is entirely a matter of perception.
When faced with this dilemma, it seems important to view the item being shown using as much context as possible. For me the most apparant case was that this cuttoe or perhaps perceived as hunting sword or court sword, carries certain gestalt corresponding to other 18th century Polish, and often related Lithuanian weapons (as described).

With many of these 'storks' (and references often note thier similarity in genus to cranes) they seem to be closely tied to heraldry from these regions, as well as Sweden. Most heraldic references which tend to these are inclined to have distinct variances in description, especially as the one you refererence which is excellent, but clearly focused on English perception.
Similarly, the term 'bezant' moves away from the equally apocryphal tale concerning the crane and the rock.

The lily seemed strangely out of place as it appeared of course to be the fluer de lis, but then , using the web, I discovered that this device was used in other countries as well, including Lithuania as noted.

With the confluence of these elements, I felt that the assessment to Lithuania/Poland was satisfactorally plausible and the period of the sword seemed established as well without comparable examples to match it to visually.

Thank you for sharing your findings from the web, and for the reminder that it is indeed a viable resource, to which I attest especially ! Theres not much room for a big library here in the Winnebago!!!

All the best,
Jim

[Valjhun]

Indeed a beauty. I've bought it recently and althought I do not collect hunting hangers, it was love at first sight.
And as we know, love could be costly nowadays... but I just couldn't help myself.

Thank you very much! Very helpfull Jim, as always.

What about the marquese crown? Any family in particular from that area, Jim?

Rock or bezant, I do not know, but that animal is definetly a stork, as in heraldy cranes and heirons have shorter beaks.

[Jim McDougall]

You're most welcome Valjhun, and I am inclined to agree, that long pointed beak seems to be a stork to me as well.....as for the whatever it is, it depends on what book or reference resource you're using.

I did further research and in " Catalog of European Court Swords and Hunting Swords" (Bashford Dean, 1929) I found some key material. It is interesting that in the 18th century, there was a strong inclination in fashion toward orientalism, and in particular in Europe, Chinese styles. Many of the smallswords were decorated in a style known as 'chinoisorie' following designs in work designed by East India Co. and done in Peking. I am under the impression that a number of Chinese artisans even came to Europe in Germany and Poland, and recall some profoundly Chinese style swords that were produced there but need to look further to find them.

In any case, in the Dean reference, couteau de chasse #38 is a hilt almost identical white ivory or bone, with the crossguard in identical style which is reflective of Chinese jian swords, and dated c. 1780-1800. The blade, which is from Germany, is decorated with virtually identical military trophies and swag, and important of note, the same type lattice or strapwork at forte panel. It would seem quite likely that a sword of this quality would have been produced in Germany and decorated with the designated arms and motif along with the well known standard military devices.

As much as it would be ideal to attribute these heraldic devices to a particular person or family, it would seem they were often widely applied in motif in swords of these times and without more personalization added, are more stature oriented. Who knows what more research might reveal though.

All the best,
Jim

[Valjhun]

Yes, some symbols like military coat of arms, moon, sun, stars, pandurs, ecc. are widely applied, but a stork? It is the first time I see a stork engraving on a 18th century blade. My guess is that it is not a generic symbol and toghether with the marquese crown could point towards the owner.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Valjhun

Yes, some symbols like military coat of arms, moon, sun, stars, pandurs, ecc. are widely applied, but a stork? It is the first time I saw a stork engraving on a 18th century blade. My guess is that it is not a generic symbol and toghether with the marquese crown could point towards the owner.

Very good points Valjhun, so lets continue. As you well note, that crown is a Marquis crown, and that probably would not be cavalierly issued on a blade it would seem. I have seen such crowns in this period on blades, and associated with France, but they typically had a ligature with initials.
As you have observed, the stork is more defining so we have to reconsider.

In the reference I cited, the cuttoe closest in form to this example is late 18th century, and seemingly more French in most features, though we know Germany often supplied blades. The presence of the fluer de lis may return to its proper French context, along with the strapwork forte panel, the military swag, and the marquis coronet.

It is noted that the marquis in peerage is typically of a border region ruler, and I found that the stork is iconic in the French Alsace-Lorraine region, which is of course one of the most contested border regions between France and Germany. Perhaps here we might find clues and this may be a court weapon awarded in this or other of the French borderland courts.

So we keep going though it does seem like the coronet would be placed over the shield with the stork instead of separate.

All the best,
Jim

[Reichsritter]

Two points I might say it's not German.

1. It is forbidden to divorce the helmet from the shield otherwise it will all look similar from dozen (even hundreds) of families bearing the same charges. (a branch of my north German family bears the same charges)

2. There is no Marquee in German Nobility except from the time of Emperor Napoleon.

Exception: Spanish and German Heraldry was influenced by French during the reign of Napoleon...but this was a short time only.

Hint: there is a banner I see. Quarterly argent 1,4. Azure 2,3 & a sun in it's splendor. I think it's a troop flag