New Kilij

Yannis · 20th June 2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conogre

Yannis, before I forget, I believe the type of suspension cord arrangement that you are referring to is called a "baldric".

Conogre. Thank you for the term. I hope I will not forget it. You can see the way they wear this baldric in a famous greek painting below.

Also you can see a scabbard like this from a greek collection. The blade is ottoman.

Finally, once again I say that Ariel's blade is not Persian but Ottoman. I have one almost the same, with same guard and almost same hilt, but more plain scabbard. Unfortunatly I cannot post picture now.

I have never seen a proven Persian kilij of this type (sort and wide blade).

ariel · 20th June 2005, 06:40 PM

I completely agree with Yannis: this is an Ottoman one. The bulbous "pistol" handle and the slit in the scabbard are unmistakeable.
However, Ottoman doesn't mean Turkish: the Empire included the entire Middle East, Egypt (albeit nominally), the Balkans etc. Thus, while the overall style is unquestionably "Ottoman", this sword could have come from rather unexpected places. That is where the question of decorations of the scabbard becomes important.
The blade could have been locally-made or imported from Iran (despite being official enemies, the two empires traded with each other quite extensively, including wepons). Thus, it may be of inferior "localizing" quality than the decorations that were made by a master using peculiarly-national patterns.

Andrew · 20th June 2005, 07:57 PM

I don't think Ham is disputing that this sword is of Ottoman manufacture. His distinction is that the blade, itself, is a Persian trade blade in Ottoman mounts.

ariel · 21st June 2005, 12:26 AM

No problem with it: I fully agree.
Any ideas about decorative elements? As per Yannis, they may be Greek .Any other opinions?

20th June 2005, 06:40 PM	#2
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I completely agree with Yannis: this is an Ottoman one. The bulbous "pistol" handle and the slit in the scabbard are unmistakeable. However, Ottoman doesn't mean Turkish: the Empire included the entire Middle East, Egypt (albeit nominally), the Balkans etc. Thus, while the overall style is unquestionably "Ottoman", this sword could have come from rather unexpected places. That is where the question of decorations of the scabbard becomes important. The blade could have been locally-made or imported from Iran (despite being official enemies, the two empires traded with each other quite extensively, including wepons). Thus, it may be of inferior "localizing" quality than the decorations that were made by a master using peculiarly-national patterns.

20th June 2005, 07:57 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	I don't think Ham is disputing that this sword is of Ottoman manufacture. His distinction is that the blade, itself, is a Persian trade blade in Ottoman mounts.

21st June 2005, 12:26 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	No problem with it: I fully agree. Any ideas about decorative elements? As per Yannis, they may be Greek .Any other opinions?